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  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    Immediately it was insinuated that he had political motives,and I asked : why did he not go to a mosque ?
    Because his in-laws went to that church, not a Mosque.

    Yes, that's right, there was a personal motive in this crime, not some grand statement or a Political motive.
    Not everything under the sun fits these pre-planned scripts.

    Originally posted by Mystikeye View Post
    From people whom actually knew him:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

    As usual you gotta go out of the country to get any real info on America.
    That does seem to be the routine these days.
    Oh well, at least we can still access those sources...

    Turns out the perp was shot by a neighbor of that church, a civilian with a rifle.
    Imagine that.
    And there will be all kinds of BS on how the shot could have penetrated the body-armor the perp was wearing. I gotta ask; don't people know that body armor might stop pistol and assault-rifle ammo, but a genuine long-gun will punch right through almost anything a man can wear and still move around?
    Jeez...
    And the killer was chased down by a pair of armed civilians, not the police, until he lost control of his vehicle and went off the road.

    So, how much speculation did we just squash with that?

    Comment


    • “His parents had him on high doses of ‘psych’ meds from 6th to 9th grade, the time I knew him,” said the student, who only wished to be identified as Reid.

      Credo quia absurdum.


      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
        Yes, that's right, there was a personal motive in this crime, not some grand statement or a Political motive.
        The motive is virtually irrelevant.

        The problem is the easy access to the weaponry, the deadliness of the weapon itself and the "culture of violence" we have in this country.

        All of the problems are addressable. But we have no political leadership that is capable of being "politically incorrect" when it comes to real solutions. And the solutions ARE politically incorrect. At least for the gun lobby and it's sycophants.

        So say your prayers, prepare the cleanup crew, and get ready for the next one.
        "I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. You can do anything... Grab them by the [redacted]. You can do anything."
        -The President of the United States of America.

        Comment


        • So he had a dispute with his inlaws specifically his mother-in-law. He did not kill them because he was a ex bible school teacher turned atheist, he did not convert to Islam and he was not an Antifa member......

          https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/te...er-law-n817961

          “We can tell you there was a domestic situation going on in this family," Commander Freeman Martin of the Texas Department of Public Safety said at a briefing. “The suspect’s mother-in-law attended this church.”

          "She has received threatening text from him,” said Martin, who did not identify the woman or elaborate on the content of the messages.

          “We know he expressed anger towards his mother-in-law, who attended this church,” he said.
          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
          “To talk of many things:
          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
          Of cabbages—and kings—
          And why the sea is boiling hot—
          And whether pigs have wings.”
          ― Lewis Carroll

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pamak View Post
            Law worked as intended?

            Is the law designed in Texas in such a way that people who are denied licence can still buy guns from sporting good stores?
            He slipped through a crack. In Texas, a dishonorable discharge counts as a convicted felony against gun ownership.

            IOW, when he declared he was not a convicted felon, he lied.
            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

            Prayers.

            BoRG

            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Salinator View Post
              He slipped through a crack. In Texas, a dishonorable discharge counts as a convicted felony against gun ownership.

              IOW, when he declared he was not a convicted felon, he lied.
              He also did NOT receive a Dishonorable. He got a Bad Conduct, one step above it. Usually does NOT equate to a felony. There is also confusion about just what assault charge he got in the end so it also might not have been the same as a Domestic conviction.

              So the NICS might actually be correct in this case. To early to tell, to much conflicting info right now.
              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
              “To talk of many things:
              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
              Of cabbages—and kings—
              And why the sea is boiling hot—
              And whether pigs have wings.”
              ― Lewis Carroll

              Comment


              • Some info on his Air Force charges.

                https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-c...the-air-force/

                As details about the man who shot dozens, killing at least 26 in a Sutherland Springs, Texas church Sunday emerge, initial reports coming from the small town about 35 miles southeast of San Antonio claimed the shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, had been dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. In fact, Kelley, who served in logistics readiness at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico from 2010 to 2014, and received a bad conduct discharge, according Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek.
                The use of a general court martial, as opposed to the less serious special court martial, is a sign that the initial charges against Kelley carried the potential for both dishonorable discharge and more than a year in confinement, said Benjamin Spencer, a Professor of Law at the University of Virginia who currently serves as a reserve officer in the Judge Advocate General's Corps of the U.S. Army.

                "They key difference between dishonorable discharge and bad conduct, as kind of a rule of thumb, is that a bad conduct discharge is for behavior that rises to the level of a misdemeanor, and a dishonorable discharge rises to the level of a felony," Spencer told CBS News on Monday. "The place where this gets relevant to something like firearms is that a dishonorable discharge gets treated like a felony conviction."
                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                “To talk of many things:
                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                Of cabbages—and kings—
                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                And whether pigs have wings.”
                ― Lewis Carroll

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                  He slipped through a crack. In Texas, a dishonorable discharge counts as a convicted felony against gun ownership.

                  IOW, when he declared he was not a convicted felon, he lied.
                  I do not expect a convicted fellon to say the truth. But I DO expect that sporting good stores do not simply take his word and actually USE databases to see if the potential client is eligible to buy a gun or not.

                  And this did not happen just once in one store...

                  http://www.star-telegram.com/news/st...183055101.html

                  The gunman, Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, of New Braunfels had purchased four guns over the past four years, two in Texas and two in Colorado.
                  All thee purchases took place AFTER his conviction and DD from the USAF!
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    He also did NOT receive a Dishonorable. He got a Bad Conduct, one step above it. Usually does NOT equate to a felony. There is also confusion about just what assault charge he got in the end so it also might not have been the same as a Domestic conviction.

                    So the NICS might actually be correct in this case. To early to tell, to much conflicting info right now.
                    Okay. I was going by what the Sheriff said.

                    Now, there are reports that he was a very vocal atheist on social media.
                    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                    Prayers.

                    BoRG

                    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                      Okay. I was going by what the Sheriff said.

                      Now, there are reports that he was a very vocal atheist on social media.
                      There is still lots of confusion going on, there always is. However the motive seems to be pointing to a domestic dispute with his mother-ln-law she went to that church. He actually killed his grandmother-in-law at the church. So I do not think his vocal atheism was a factor. Social media BS.

                      I'd be willing to bet he was abusing his current wife and child and word got back to his in-laws maybe....

                      As far as his conviction in the Air Force and such the ATF spokesmen gets it right:

                      http://www.star-telegram.com/news/st...183055101.html

                      Fred Milanowski, special agent in charge for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, has told the media that investigators are reviewing data and paperwork to see if anything should have prevented Kelley from buying guns.

                      Until we can get all the documentation to determine exactly what his discharge and conviction in the military (were), we will not have a determination on if this individual was prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms,” he told the Daily News.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                        Some info on his Air Force charges.

                        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-c...the-air-force/
                        This is interesting!

                        So, the question then is why did Texas deny him a permit?

                        There must be something that elevated him above the level of a simple misdemeanor. I assume (and correct me if I am wrong) that misdemeanor is not enough to deny someone a constitutional right...
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by armor11 View Post
                          The motive is virtually irrelevant.
                          I think that you're right about that. Former chief of forensic psychology for the State of Georgia Corrections Dept Dr Joel Norris maintained that René Descartes' "I think therefore I am" has in the 20th century morphed in to "I desire therefore I am entitled." We live in a society in which every whim, regardless if its inane character, is afforded some measure of validity. While to you and I it seems patently insane, to this . . . . individual it seemed perfectly reasonable that his beef with his wife and her family should be addressed by shooting up his mother-in-law's church. His gripe with his in-laws entitled him to take action -- violent action -- against people they likely described as friends.

                          Originally posted by armor11 View Post
                          The problem is the easy access to the weaponry, the deadliness of the weapon itself
                          Being so close to the Mexican border, I'd think it quite easy to obtain such weapon from Mexico. The place is awash in military grade weapons as it is. It wouldn't take much to traipse on over there and buy some -- regardless of the written law.

                          Originally posted by armor11 View Post
                          and the "culture of violence" we have in this country.
                          As I stated above, we live in a culture that glorifies the whim. Now it's "I want, therefore I'm entitled to take," or it's "I'm angry, therefore I'm entitled to hurt or maim or kill." Maybe in a few years this character will be a tee-shirt.

                          Originally posted by armor11 View Post
                          All of the problems are addressable. But we have no political leadership that is capable of being "politically incorrect" when it comes to real solutions. And the solutions ARE politically incorrect. At least for the gun lobby and it's sycophants.

                          So say your prayers, prepare the cleanup crew, and get ready for the next one.
                          The United Federation of Teachers -- the union that represents public school teachers in the City of New York, and is as liberal an outfit that has existed since the folding of Comintern -- spent untold hundreds of thousands of dues-payers' dollars, appealing just one step short of the Supreme Court, to keep the editor of the NAMBLA newsletter in the classroom and on the public payroll. So which side of the aisle should take "politically incorrect" acts -- 'cause from where I sit, knowingly exposing children to pederasts should get one shot. Maybe that's where the gun lobby comes in smelling like roses.
                          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                          Comment


                          • The database didn't have him as a convicted felon, nor as a being convicted of domestic violence. Both preclude any ability to purchase or own a weapon. I suspect the later was missed because in the military under the UCMJ domestic violence comes under Article 134, the general article, not a specific listed criminal charge such as Article 128 Assault. 134 is a catch-all article. The details of his court martial may not even appear in his retained service record either, just a entry that he was court martialed found guilty of Article 134 and given x, y, and z as punishment.

                            The problem is with the system, not the gun dealers who almost certainly used due diligence in the sales. The system didn't have an entry from the military for his court martial in it. I'm not even sure they have to make entries for most charges against military personnel.

                            Oh, the Star-Telegram article is wrong in one respect: You do not need a license to possess or carry a weapon in Texas, only a permit / license is needed for concealed carry. Kelley was denied that when he applied for it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                              This is interesting!

                              So, the question then is why did Texas deny him a permit?

                              There must be something that elevated him above the level of a simple misdemeanor. I assume (and correct me if I am wrong) that misdemeanor is not enough to deny someone a constitutional right...
                              It was a permit to carry a weapon as a security guard. He was granted an unarmed license later. Not a permit to own etc.

                              To much murkiness in the water right now. Will take time.
                              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                              “To talk of many things:
                              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                              Of cabbages—and kings—
                              And why the sea is boiling hot—
                              And whether pigs have wings.”
                              ― Lewis Carroll

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                                The database didn't have him as a convicted felon, nor as a being convicted of domestic violence. Both preclude any ability to purchase or own a weapon. I suspect the later was missed because in the military under the UCMJ domestic violence comes under Article 134, the general article, not a specific listed criminal charge such as Article 128 Assault. 134 is a catch-all article. The details of his court martial may not even appear in his retained service record either, just a entry that he was court martialed found guilty of Article 134 and given x, y, and z as punishment.

                                The problem is with the system, not the gun dealers who almost certainly used due diligence in the sales. The system didn't have an entry from the military for his court martial in it. I'm not even sure they have to make entries for most charges against military personnel.

                                Oh, the Star-Telegram article is wrong in one respect: You do not need a license to possess or carry a weapon in Texas, only a permit / license is needed for concealed carry. Kelley was denied that when he applied for it.
                                I also read it was a permit to be an armed security guard, as opposed to a permit to carry concealed. Lots of misinformation still going around.
                                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                                “To talk of many things:
                                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                                Of cabbages—and kings—
                                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                                And whether pigs have wings.”
                                ― Lewis Carroll

                                Comment

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