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  • Originally posted by pamak View Post
    I have never beaten my wife, so I cannot be so sure...
    So, just who have you beaten...?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      They did not fail you, it is that pesky Bill of Rights getting in your way again.

      You cannot deprive a citizen of their freedom without due process.

      And yes, what you are describing is precisely anti-American in nature. You are urging for the elimination of all personal freedoms.
      He had due process, he was sent to a mental institute which he escaped from. He violated the terms of his plea bargain.
      Even if we ignore his well established mental illness issues, his acceptance of a plea deal was never reported to the proper authority, which is required and which would have prevented him from legally purchasing weapons.
      These are laws that we the citizens of this country are required to adhere to. If I want to continue to legally own weapons, I can not beat children, I can not beat my wife, i can not attempt to smuggle weapons onto a military base. If I do, I lose my constitutional rights.
      That is the law.
      It's about time our government start abiding by the laws it demands us to adhere to.
      Last edited by Urban hermit; 07 Nov 17, 22:27.
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        He had due process, he was sent to a mental institute which he escaped from. He violated the terms of his plea bargain.
        Even if we ignore his well established mental illness issues, his acceptance of a plea deal was never reported to the proper authority, which is required and which woukd6 have prevented him from legally purchasing weapons.
        These are laws that we the citizens of this country are required to adhere to. If I want to continue to legally own weapons, I can not beat children, I can not beat my wife, i can not attempt to smuggle weapons onto a military base. If I do, I lose my constitutional rights.
        No, you do not.

        They are suspended for a specific period of time, after due process.

        He was sent to a rehab facility, not a prison. And mental illness, again, is not reason enough to deprive anyone of their civil rights.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by pamak View Post
          Sorry, sources say that he was telling that christians were stupid, which certainly does not show that he was an atheist, unless you see the actual context of the speech. If he had been rejected by the pastor and the congregation, then calling them "stupid" does not mean that he was an atheist! So, providing as "facts" claims that he was an atheist without having the actual posts and in the presence of conflicting information is "fake news" , and an attempt to pander conservative Christians. Notice by the way that the same link which Breitbart uses to claim that he was an atheist, also mentions that his LinkedIn account revealed that Kelley was an Air Force veteran and ex-Bible studies teacher. And your argument that going to church is the same as going to an Indian food restaurant does not make sense either. Restaurants are full of atheists who go there expecting service for their pleasure. Atheists have no reason to attend churches...
          Sorry but no. His personal contacts make it clear he was an atheist.

          http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/ex-frie...igious-people/

          https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/485181...lley-facebook/

          That's all on the record.

          And the whole Sunday school teacher bit comes from a LinkedIn profile that people have yet to work out. Maybe he used to be a Christian, maybe it was a load of bull, but his atheism here is made plain.

          And atheists do have reasons to go to church. Some go to be with family during the holidays, some go to be with friends (I have met both types in my own church) some question their beliefs and go there for counsel (my pastor has seen this too). Lots of reasons for non Christians to be in church (we don't check your belief ID for eating at our fellowship dinners ) but stepping into a church doesn't make you one.
          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            No, you do not.

            They are suspended for a specific period of time, after due process.

            He was sent to a rehab facility, not a prison. And mental illness, again, is not reason enough to deprive anyone of their civil rights.
            You can argue all you want, the Airforce has already admithey failed to notify the FBI and the ATF of his conviction which would have stopped him from legally purchasing weapons. Those are the facts.
            Their failure to follow protocol place every LEO that came into,contact with this man is extreme danger because of the lack of information about his violent nature. I shouldn’t have to tell you how important a background check is.
            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

            Comment


            • There were already laws in place that would have prevented him from buying a weapon legally. The laws weren't enforced. End of story. We cant always enforce the laws so it is up to good citizenship to obey the laws. When a man decides he or she is above the law there is usually very little you can do to stop him or her from their law breaking.

              Comment


              • If you believe your constitutional rights can not be taken away think again.
                QUICK REFERENCE TO FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS
                I. POSSESSION OF A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION BY A PROHIBITED PERSON:
                18 USC § 922(g) & (n). Punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. May receive minimum sentence of 15 years without parole if offender has three or more prior convictions for a felony crime of violence (e.g. burglary, robbery, assault, possession of offensive weapons) and/or drug trafficking felony.
                Elements:
                A. Possession or receipt of a firearm or ammunition;
                B. By a subject who falls within one of the following categories:
                Felon - (Additionally, persons awaiting trial on felony charges are prohibited from receiving firearms.);
                Drug user or addict - (Often shown where paraphernalia seized, subject tests positive for drugs and/or subject claims drugs were possessed for personal use.);
                Alien - (Includes illegal aliens and aliens lawfully admitted under non-immigrant visas, i.e., those aliens not admitted for permanent residence. This provision does not prohibit aliens who lawfully possess a so-called “green card” from possessing guns or ammunition.);
                Is subject to a domestic restraining order - (The order must prohibit contact with an intimate partner, or child of the subject, and must have been issued only after a hearing of which the subject was notified and at which the subject had an opportunity to participate. The order must also find the subject poses a threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child or must prohibit the use, threatened use or attempted use of physical force.);
                Has a prior conviction for domestic assault - (Includes a prior conviction for any assault or threatened use of a deadly weapon against a present or former spouse or partner or child or guardian of any such person. The subject must have been entitled to a jury trial and been represented by counsel in the prior proceeding or be shown to have waived those rights.);
                Fugitive from justice - (Fled any state to avoid being prosecuted or to avoid testifying in any criminal proceeding.); or
                Dishonorably discharged from the military; AND
                C. The firearm or ammunition was transported across a state line at any time.
                https://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...03/guncard.pdf
                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                Comment


                • FRom the NRA website

                  Under federal law supported by the National Rifle Association, the use of a firearm in a violent or drug-trafficking crime is punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of up to 20 years. A second conviction, if the firearm is a machine gun or is equipped with a silencer, brings life imprisonment without release. Violating firearms laws should lead to very real punishment for violent criminals, but the laws first must be enforced.

                  Ineligible Persons


                  The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

                  Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
                  Fugitives from justice.
                  Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
                  Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
                  Illegal aliens.
                  Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
                  Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
                  Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
                  Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
                  Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
                  Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
                  Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

                  Acquiring Firearms

                  The following restrictions apply to firearms acquired through purchase, trade, receipt of gifts, or by other means.
                  Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                  Comment


                  • You really are lame. I seriously doubt that this information was tabulated by the NRA, try a government organization where they borrowed the information. Think FBI? Every system has loopholes, don't be a fool to think otherwise. In my experience with NICS, it was pretty accurate, in the few instances when the information wasn't complete they cautioned me. Have you ever used the database? No, right.

                    Originally posted by pamak View Post
                    So, the NRA is lying when it says that 30-something states report only about 80% of their felony convictions? Or is it that this act does not apply to states? There are obviously some loopholes in order to have the states report only 80% of there FELONY records. This, again, comes from the NRA, not a leftist organization...
                    My worst jump story:
                    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                    No lie.

                    ~
                    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                    Comment


                    • Anytime WE transported hardware we were with it at all times even slept with it. One exception was when transporting by commercial aircraft.

                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      Yeah, it happens. The US Forest Service lost a huge number of handguns in one go.

                      ATF is missing about 600 automatic weapons (evidence) last I heard. A PD in New York lost two M2 HMGs and a lot of ammo.

                      Stuff happens.
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                        ..His personal contacts make it clear he was an atheist..
                        Well that removes any suspicion he might have been an Amish..

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                          Yeah, it happens. The US Forest Service lost a huge number of handguns in one go.

                          ATF is missing about 600 automatic weapons (evidence) last I heard. A PD in New York lost two M2 HMGs and a lot of ammo.

                          Stuff happens.


                          Wow, that is troubling.
                          Maybe we should pass more laws against stealing guns and ammo so criminals won't do that anymore.
                          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                            Sorry but no. His personal contacts make it clear he was an atheist.

                            http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/ex-frie...igious-people/

                            https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/485181...lley-facebook/

                            That's all on the record.

                            And the whole Sunday school teacher bit comes from a LinkedIn profile that people have yet to work out. Maybe he used to be a Christian, maybe it was a load of bull, but his atheism here is made plain.

                            And atheists do have reasons to go to church. Some go to be with family during the holidays, some go to be with friends (I have met both types in my own church) some question their beliefs and go there for counsel (my pastor has seen this too). Lots of reasons for non Christians to be in church (we don't check your belief ID for eating at our fellowship dinners ) but stepping into a church doesn't make you one.
                            It is pretty obvious that there was conflicting information.

                            The link BREITART used to justify a headline that he was an atheist who was calling people stupid, ALSO includes the information that his linkedin profile revealed that he was a USAF veteran AND an ex-Bible studies teacher. So anybody who rushes to pass as facts his "ASSUMPTIONS" regarding his actual profile without even reading what he actually said, is a hack!

                            THis is Bretibart

                            http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/...stians-stupid/

                            Former classmates of the Texas church shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, said he was an atheist and outcast who thought Christians were stupid, the Daily Mail reported.
                            And this is from the Daily Mail

                            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

                            LinkedIn reveals Kelley was an Air Force veteran and ex-Bible studies teacher
                            The difference between the leftist MSM and the links you bring is that ONLY the latter decided to create a headline about the shooter's religious beliefs after choosing, of course, the pieces of information that fit their narrative and dismiss contradictory information or alternative interpretations.


                            And something else: Notice how ALL the sources you bring are based on the SAME Daily Mail article. Notice also how the British were able to find first the classmates of the shooter and talk to them..You know, it is very easy that I can claim I am John Johnson and was a classmate of this guy who was a fanatic Christian fundamentalist who preached the Bible in his social media which apparently nobody can check. It seems that if the British newspaper got this information first, it did so by talking to some people in internet (and I give them the benefit of the doubt that they did not simply invent the whole thing). And finally, as I said from the beginning, it is the issue of the context of his remarks. So even if he did posted things "against Christians," you have to see if this was a reflection of a general philosophical belief or a result of his confrontation with the PARTICULAR church and Christians associated to his mother in law...
                            Last edited by pamak; 08 Nov 17, 15:05.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mystikeye View Post
                              There were already laws in place that would have prevented him from buying a weapon legally. The laws weren't enforced. End of story. We cant always enforce the laws so it is up to good citizenship to obey the laws. When a man decides he or she is above the law there is usually very little you can do to stop him or her from their law breaking.
                              If he was not released /if he was ot able to escape, a lot of people would still live .

                              There is no need for anti-gun laws, but for anti-crime laws , but as the crime lobby is ruling the swamp ......

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                                Tangentially I'll be responding to pamak as well.



                                When I was but a wee lad, my great-grandmother had a fresh copy of The New York Times on her coffee table every day. She always claimed that she couldn't read English and that she bought it in order to line the bird cage, but we knew that the old lady read it. She was one of the most well-informed people I ever knew. Back then it was an article of faith that The New York Times was gold standard of American journalism. "All the news that's fit to print." When I read The Times as a kid I felt like a real grownup. Even The Times' language was superior. When I was in Saudi in 1990-91 my mother sent me the Sunday Times every week. Reading The Times back in the day was an experience, a pleasant experience that I cherished for many years.

                                So you can imagine the disappointment I felt when I learned how crass and self-serving and manipulative The Times could be. I can list their transgressions, but surely you know them as well as I do. I just have a hard time respecting an institution that will sell their endorsements for commercial gain, and do it so nakedly, at that. Compare The Times' "all the news that's fit to print" to Fox News' "fair and balanced." The latter is said with a wink-wink, so we all know that they're full of sh&t, but the former was always touted as gospel truth. What makes it worse is that Fox News' proprietors and editors know they're running a con, while The Times and their partisans still believe that their sh*t don't stink: check out current publisher Sulzberger Jr's bitter defense of Duranty's Pulitzer displayed in The Time's lobby -- would have made Trump blush. And since Old Man Sulzberger's passing, even the quality of The Times' language has declined. My teachers for years repeated mantra-like that reading The Times daily was the best preparation for the SAT. Nowadays it reads like it's written by high school dropouts. So yeah, The Times is worse, worse even than that scandal sheet Breitbart. Breitbart doesn't trade on generations of good faith and reputation. Sadly The Times does.



                                I'd liken Breitbart to that creepy guy who lives in the run down Gothic mansion on the end of the block that all the kids stay away from 'cause they think he's some kind of pervert. The Times, on the other hand, is the parish priest, trusted by generations of your neighbors and your family, highly respected and touted as a pillar of the community, who turns out to have raped dozens of kids, and all the kids are afraid to talk about it because they're all afraid that the priest's impeccable reputation will make them look like liars in the eyes of their community. That's how bitterly disappointing The Times has become.
                                I’d disagree with your metaphor, but only slightly. The traditional pillars may be horrible, but they seem far worse because of the dichotomy between whom they pretend to be, and who they really are. They’re your Kevin Spacey’s or Bill Cosby’s, assaulting dozens, but it seems all the more shocking because of who they have presented themselves as before. It’s the contrast between who they pretended to be and what they really are.

                                Breitbart and gang are more like the mouth-breathing carny with the halitosis who it turns out has been murder-raping children for decades and burying them underneath the cotton candy machine. They’re like your Ed Geins or Jeffrey Dahmers. The depth of their immorality is worse, but when you hear about it, you kinda just nod your head and go “Yeah, I figured as much.” His actions are worse, but then, it’s not as though he ever pretended to be anything other than a creepy loon.

                                ... though the fact that we both default to using sexual predators as metaphors for the whole lot of them is telling in its own right.

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