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  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    The military isn't set up to deal with these sort of cases. They have a transient population, and their law enforcement body turns over in two or three years through transfers and ETS.
    This is a matter of the personnel support not getting the records correct in somebody's service record.

    I know that all too well. Had to have my DD 214 retyped three times before I'd sign it. They actually called the USS Enterprise's CHENG (Chief Engineer, a Commander) to the personnel office when I refused to back date evals that were not done on time (two years worth, three in total) on my being discharged.
    He shrugged and said it wasn't going to make any difference and to stop bothering him.
    I have a page awarding me a bunch of medals for being in the Persian Gulf on the USS LaSalle, a ship I never served on and didn't even know existed at the time in mine too.

    Stuff doesn't get into service records all the time. Add to that that the personnel staff probably have no access to NCIC or other national criminal databases along with not being aware they're even supposed to input military court martials into these systems.

    This guy fell through the cracks of a very fractured system.

    Comment


    • It already is included, where have you been? Maybe, before commenting you should educate yourself.

      Originally posted by pamak View Post
      How?

      Are you going to argue that PTSD patients who have been convicted for domestic violence should be in the national database and prohibited from buying guns?

      And are you going to include EVERY case of domestic violence conviction? I assume that domestic violence convictions can include anything from pushing your partner to punching him or her...

      It is not that easy to address this issue without affecting the cnstitutional rights of many people...
      My worst jump story:
      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
      No lie.

      ~
      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

      Comment


      • Are you not paying attention to the thread? It was stated earlier that his domestic violence arrest was not reported which means that it wasn't in the NICS.

        Originally posted by armor11 View Post
        1) Please explain how a "crazy person that should have been placed in a mental institution" found it easy to get access to a weapon capable of killing 27 people and wounding 20 others in about 30 seconds.

        2) Roughly 2000 people murder other people with guns every year. Are they all crazy?

        3) Please define crazy.
        My worst jump story:
        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
        No lie.

        ~
        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
          It already is included, where have you been? Maybe, before commenting you should educate yourself.
          You do not understand what I am saying.

          Domestic violence conviction which is NOT reported to the database means nothing! And right now, (and in fact even before the latest mass shooting) I was talking about the lose legal requirements to input such information to the national database, In fact, if you ever bothered to read what I have said instead of trying to be a "smartrearer," you would have seen that a month or so ago I posted an NRA video which revealed how only some states choose to cooperate and update the national database with information about criminal convictions or mental treatment. So, it seems that there is no some legal mandate to report such things...




          It seems that the armed forces also do not follow some "law" for reporting such things. They follow a "protocol" or "procedures" which gives them a lot of flexibility regarding what they do with the information they have on hand

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.891ab95f5300

          the Air Forceís failure to follow Pentagon guidelines for ensuring that certain violent offenses are reported to the FBI.
          Notice the wording... "guidelines"

          or

          The Air Force does not operate prisons and instead sends troops convicted of crimes to Army or Navy jails. Kelley served his sentence at a Navy brig in San Diego. Navy regulations do not require a fingerprint card and conviction summary to be forwarded to the FBI after inmate in-processing.
          Last edited by pamak; 07 Nov 17, 18:56.
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

          Comment


          • The problem is that YOU don't understand what you are saying.

            Last time I checked the US Air Force was connected to the US government; therefore, it should have been reported to the NICS. Anyone responsible for not reporting it should be held accountable.

            Originally posted by pamak View Post
            You do not understand what I am saying.

            Domestic violence conviction which is NOT reported to the database means nothing! And right now, (and in fact even before the latest mass shooting) I was talking about the lose legal requirements to input such information to the national database, In fact, if you ever bothered to read what I have said instead of trying to be a "smartrearer," you would have seen that a month or so ago I posted an NRA video which revealed how only some states choose to cooperate and update the national database with information about criminal convictions or mental treatment. So, it seems that there is no some legal mandate to report such things...




            It seems that the armed forces do not follow some "law" for reporting such things. They follow a "protocol" or "procedures" which gives them a lot of flexibility regarding what they do with the information they have on hand
            My worst jump story:
            My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
            As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
            No lie.

            ~
            "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
            -2 Commando Jumpmaster

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
              The problem is that YOU don't understand what you are saying.

              Last time I checked the US Air Force was connected to the US government; therefore, it should have been reported to the NICS. Anyone responsible for not reporting it should be held accountable.
              Good luck with that. Some E-4 to 6 in an office full of E-4 to 6 that was supposed to do it? Like you can nail some officer who's been promoted elsewhere or resigned from the service on completion of his contract... It isn't happening.
              If it were me they were after, I'd say I did the paperwork, but with his discharge the files were sent to wherever they're stored permanently, and it was them that goofed. They'd say I goofed. Try proving who's fault it was. Impossible...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                The problem is that YOU don't understand what you are saying.

                Last time I checked the US Air Force was connected to the US government; therefore, it should have been reported to the NICS. Anyone responsible for not reporting it should be held accountable.
                If there is no law to require such reporting, then it is a matter of what the internal protocols say. And THERE, you may have a lot of fudging regarding what ACTUALLY is reported, especially because there are incentives not to blacklist a part of the military which suffers from PTSD and does have domestic violence convictions. Without a LEGAL mandate, the government can do nothing against those who do not report certain things to the database...
                And I do not buy that easily the scenario that someone who has been convicted for domestic violence for pushing his wife will find himself in the national database and will lose his right to purchase a gun...
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                  If there is no law to require such reporting, then it is a matter of what the internal protocols say. And THERE, you may have a lot of fudging regarding what ACTUALLY is reported, especially because there are incentives not to blacklist a part of the military which suffers from PTSD and does have domestic violence convictions. Without a LEGAL mandate, the government can do nothing against those who do not report certain things to the database...
                  And I do not buy that easily the scenario that someone who has been convicted for domestic violence for pushing his wife will find himself in the national database and will lose his right to purchase a gun...
                  There probably is a law that requires it. But, it probably doesn't fully apply to the military because they have their own legal system, the UCMJ. Military members do not have full constitutional rights. Some are abbreviated as part of their service contract.

                  Domestic violence convictions, including misdemeanors, were added as a reason to bar someone from buying or possessing a gun during the Clinton administration. Some of that was later overturned as going too far.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_co...administration

                  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-rig...s-court-rules/

                  Comment


                  • The Army totally screwed up my processing out. I kept my duffle bag and bunch of my clothes. They made a list of the items I took and sent me to Payroll. There they paid me without taking out deductions! On the way off base I stopped at the PX and bought a pair of Corcoran Jump Boots. I like to cried when they finally wore out later. It has been forty years and I still have my name tag and brass. I think I still have my dogtags.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • They could narrow it down they do have records.

                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      Good luck with that. Some E-4 to 6 in an office full of E-4 to 6 that was supposed to do it? Like you can nail some officer who's been promoted elsewhere or resigned from the service on completion of his contract... It isn't happening.
                      If it were me they were after, I'd say I did the paperwork, but with his discharge the files were sent to wherever they're stored permanently, and it was them that goofed. They'd say I goofed. Try proving who's fault it was. Impossible...
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • Even if a domestic violence case is handled off base in the civilian criminal court system, criminal conviction of even a misdemeanor involving domestic violence can end a service member's military career; the 1996 Lautenberg Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968 makes it unlawful for anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor of domestic violence to possess firearms. The law applies to law enforcement officers and military personnel.

                        https://www.thebalance.com/domestic-...litary-4052670

                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        There probably is a law that requires it. But, it probably doesn't fully apply to the military because they have their own legal system, the UCMJ. Military members do not have full constitutional rights. Some are abbreviated as part of their service contract.

                        Domestic violence convictions, including misdemeanors, were added as a reason to bar someone from buying or possessing a gun during the Clinton administration. Some of that was later overturned as going too far.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_co...administration

                        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-rig...s-court-rules/
                        My worst jump story:
                        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                        No lie.

                        ~
                        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                        Comment


                        • You're wrong.

                          Try beating up your wife and see if it gets in the database. Wait a minute, don't do that. It will get in, even stuff that never received a conviction of any kind can show up in the NICS.

                          Originally posted by pamak View Post
                          If there is no law to require such reporting, then it is a matter of what the internal protocols say. And THERE, you may have a lot of fudging regarding what ACTUALLY is reported, especially because there are incentives not to blacklist a part of the military which suffers from PTSD and does have domestic violence convictions. Without a LEGAL mandate, the government can do nothing against those who do not report certain things to the database...
                          And I do not buy that easily the scenario that someone who has been convicted for domestic violence for pushing his wife will find himself in the national database and will lose his right to purchase a gun...
                          My worst jump story:
                          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                          No lie.

                          ~
                          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                            You're wrong.

                            Try beating up your wife and see if it gets in the database. Wait a minute, don't do that. It will get in, even stuff that never received a conviction of any kind can show up in the NICS.
                            That's another problem. Stuff that shouldn't get in does. Charges that were dropped for example. The other issue is once it's in there, it's forever. So, you get stuff that's decades old and irrelevant but you could still be denied for it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                              Even if a domestic violence case is handled off base in the civilian criminal court system, criminal conviction of even a misdemeanor involving domestic violence can end a service member's military career; the 1996 Lautenberg Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968 makes it unlawful for anyone who has been convicted of a misdemeanor of domestic violence to possess firearms. The law applies to law enforcement officers and military personnel.

                              https://www.thebalance.com/domestic-...litary-4052670
                              All that means today is your best bet if charged, particularly in questionable or misdemeanor circumstances is to go to trial. Few prosecutors will want to waste the time and money pursuing what is a chump change charge where it looks like getting a conviction might be difficult.

                              In fact, this is becoming more and more the best course of action with the criminal court system in many cases. The system currently is set up for maximizing plea deals and short cutting the trial process. By going to trail you may end up with a stiffer sentence, but if you are already looking at more than a couple of years on the plea deal there's lots of time to appeal all the messed up stuff of your original trial. It also drags the legal system into more expense they don't want fighting the appeal process.

                              Comment


                              • A guy beats his wife savagely, breaks his toddler stepsons skull, attempts to smuggle weapons onto a military base after threatening to kill his commanding officer and others, is placed in a mental hospital from which he escaped, is dishonorably discharged from the military sentenced to a year in military prison.
                                Has numerous complaints filed for domestic violence.
                                And nobody saw it coming! The FBI had no clue,the ATF had no clue.
                                Iím sure I will be labeled as an anti American, anti constitution fascist.
                                But this guy should have been wrapped up in a straight jacket, locked in a padded cell, with no doors, just a hole in the wall for air, food and water.
                                This is redicules. A total failure of every protection we as citizens have been told stands between us and people like this.
                                How many excuses do we need to hear?
                                This is why we need to arm ourselves. We cannot trust our protection to anyone in authority, they have failed us to many times.
                                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                                Comment

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