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Who goes to jail as the result of the Trump-Russia collusion fraud?

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  • The big question this week is can the President's lawyers constrain him on twitter. How many more idiotic decisions can he make concerning the special prosecutor? Oh, we lots of paths that he could wonder down. No many of them pretty for the Trump supporters....
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
      He started cooperating with the FBI about a week after the President was inaugurated. So 8 months or so. Lots of WH aids and former campaign aids are thinking really hard right now about any email or conversation they had with him. Lawyers are busy billing by the hour.....
      I would not be surprised if Trump gives public hints that he will pardon him!

      I have a feeling that we may have a constitutional crisis with Trump trying to abuse his pardon powers to give the signal to others that they have nothing to be afraid of the FBI.

      By the way, I think this "pardon" thing is anachronistic and has to go one way or another...
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        Got to have the facts on the table in order to apply logic. Beats logic without facts.
        Try to follow along:

        MS-13 is not being targeted by the DOJ because they are a group of people and an investigation might uncover evidence of criminal activities. They are being targeted because of specific crimes for which they are suspects and because they have a long record of criminal convictions.

        If you think this is analogous to the Mueller investigation into the the Trump campaign, you are incapable of logical reasoning.
        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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        • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
          The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
          (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
          (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
          (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
          https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...67231/download

          He should also fire Rosenstein for allowing Mueller any latitude at all.

          This is akin to issuing a search warrant for something specific and whatever else you happen to find.

          Investigating people, in search of evidence of a crime, is the antithesis of our system of justice.
          Sorry,
          Crimes uncovered in the course of a different investigation are still a crime.
          Conservatives in the U.S. won't be happy until Jim Crow returns and "White Heterosexual Only" signs are legalized.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
            The big question this week is can the President's lawyers constrain him on twitter. How many more idiotic decisions can he make concerning the special prosecutor? Oh, we lots of paths that he could wonder down. No many of them pretty for the Trump supporters....
            Trump won't fire Mueller.
            Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Anthrax View Post
              Sorry,
              Crimes uncovered in the course of a different investigation are still a crime.
              I didn't state otherwise.

              I said Trump should fire Rosenstein for giving Mueller latitude to investigate anything beyond Russian efforts to meddle in the election.
              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                Try to follow along:

                MS-13 is not being targeted by the DOJ because they are a group of people and an investigation might uncover evidence of criminal activities. They are being targeted because of specific crimes for which they are suspects and because they have a long record of criminal convictions.

                If you think this is analogous to the Mueller investigation into the the Trump campaign, you are incapable of logical reasoning.
                You stated that any such investigations are un-american. Investigating people in search of a crime...... Simple fact.
                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                “To talk of many things:
                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                Of cabbages—and kings—
                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                And whether pigs have wings.”
                ― Lewis Carroll

                Comment


                • Amazingly this article arrives at the same conclusion as Doctor did. Turns out the order for a Special Counsel could be illegal.

                  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...nt-matter.html
                  As I pointed out*in a column last May, the law (28 CFR 600) grants legal authority to appoint a special counsel to investigate*crimes.* Only crimes.* He has limited jurisdiction.* Yet, in his order appointing Mueller as special counsel (Order No. 3915-2017), Rosenstein directed him to investigate*“any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.”***It fails to identify any specific crimes, likely because none are applicable.

                  Way to go, Doctor!
                  Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                  "Aim small, miss small."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    You stated that any such investigations are un-american. Investigating people in search of a crime...... Simple fact.
                    Quote what I posted, in context, rather than lying about what I posted.
                    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                      Trump won't fire Mueller.
                      Reasonable people would say that. The President is not that reasonable of a person when he's angry....... maybe his handlers will keep him calm..... after all it's adult day care......

                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                        I didn't state otherwise.

                        I said Trump should fire Rosenstein for giving Mueller latitude to investigate anything beyond Russian efforts to meddle in the election.
                        Rosenstein did nothing different than what happened with Bill Clinton. If you recall, the story with Monica came after the investigation against him took 2-3 different paths of investigating completely different and unrelated things.

                        But you did not complain then about broad latitude, did you?
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                          When he only had five people in his campaign considered to be foreign policy advisors, it's not too difficult to remember 5 names and 5 brief descriptions.
                          I imagine that is a hard argument to follow through on. It's not that you're wrong, but if one removes oneself from the equation and looks down on this from the outside, having him being able to name the man is a blow to the idea that he was an unknown and doing his own thing. Once Trump knows his name and has been seen to use it publicly - especially if it was him being "on the spot" and having to scramble to find the names - it undercuts the idea that he was a completely useless unknown.

                          And even if that argument is to be taken at face value and we assume that Trump just happened to know the name but had nothing else to do with him, it just looks bad when played out. Politics is never about what is true but what people believe is true, and having Trump on record using his name just doesn't play well when arguing that he was too unimportant to matter to anyone who did matter.

                          Though I have to again qualify that by pointing out that this doesn't prove that Trump is the super-guilty ultra-Russian spy people like to think he is. If I don't, people will get upset.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                            Crimes are investigated. The investigation of individuals in search of evidence of criminal activity is as un-American as it gets.
                            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                            Quote what I posted, in context, rather than lying about what I posted.
                            Individual, group same thing. They are going after them, searching for crimes. Fact.
                            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                            “To talk of many things:
                            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                            Of cabbages—and kings—
                            And why the sea is boiling hot—
                            And whether pigs have wings.”
                            ― Lewis Carroll

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                              I imagine that is a hard argument to follow through on. It's not that you're wrong, but if one removes oneself from the equation and looks down on this from the outside, having him being able to name the man is a blow to the idea that he was an unknown and doing his own thing. Once Trump knows his name and has been seen to use it publicly - especially if it was him being "on the spot" and having to scramble to find the names - it undercuts the idea that he was a completely useless unknown.

                              And even if that argument is to be taken at face value and we assume that Trump just happened to know the name but had nothing else to do with him, it just looks bad when played out. Politics is never about what is true but what people believe is true, and having Trump on record using his name just doesn't play well when arguing that he was too unimportant to matter to anyone who did matter.

                              Though I have to again qualify that by pointing out that this doesn't prove that Trump is the super-guilty ultra-Russian spy people like to think he is. If I don't, people will get upset.
                              Best thing is that President Trumps use of his name in the WP article is what brought attention on the young man from the Kremlin.



                              5. On or about March 14, 2016, while traveling in Italy, defendant
                              PAPADOPOULOS met an individual who was a professor based in London (the "Professor").
                              Initially, the Professor seemed uninterested in defendant PAPADOPOULOS. However, after
                              defendant PAPADOPOULOS infonned the Professor about his joining the Campaign, the
                              Professor appeared to take great interest in defendant PAPADOPOULOS. Defendant
                              PAPADOPOULOS was interested in the Professor because, among other reasons, the Professor
                              3
                              Case 1:17-cr-00182-RDM *SEALED* Document 19 Filed 10/05/17 Page 4 of 14
                              claimed to have substantial connections with Russian government officials, which defendant
                              PAPADOPOULOS thought could increase his importance as a policy advisor to the Campaign.
                              6. On or about March 21, 2016, the Campaign told The Washington Post that
                              defendant PAPADOPOULOS was one of five named foreign policy advisors for the Campaign.

                              7. On or about March 24, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met with the
                              Professor in London. The Professor brought with him a female Russian national (the "Female
                              Russian National"), introduced to defendant PAPADOPOULOS as a relative of Russian

                              President Vladimir Putin with connections to senior Russian government officials.
                              PAPADOPOULOS Pursues His Contacts with the Professor and the Fema Russian National
                              8. Following his March 24, 2016 meeting with the Professor and the Female Russian
                              National, defendant PAPADOPOULOS emailed the Campaign Supervisor and several members
                              of the Campaign's foreign policy team and stated that he had just met with his "good friend" the
                              Professor, who had introduced him to the Female Russian National (described by defendant
                              PAPADOPOULOS in the email as "Putin's niece") and the Russian Ambassador in London. 1
                              Defendant PAPADOPOULOS stated that the topic of their discussion was "to arrange a meeting
                              between us and the Russian leadership to discuss U.S.-Russia ties under President Trump." The
                              Campaign Supervisor responded that he would "work it through the campaign," but that no
                              commitments should be made at that point. The Campaign Supervisor added: "Great work."
                              As soon as he was mentioned the Russian Kremlin connection begins...
                              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                              “To talk of many things:
                              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                              Of cabbages—and kings—
                              And why the sea is boiling hot—
                              And whether pigs have wings.”
                              ― Lewis Carroll

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                                Amazingly this article arrives at the same conclusion as Doctor did. Turns out the order for a Special Counsel could be illegal.

                                http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...nt-matter.html
                                As I pointed out*in a column last May, the law (28 CFR 600) grants legal authority to appoint a special counsel to investigate*crimes.* Only crimes.* He has limited jurisdiction.* Yet, in his order appointing Mueller as special counsel (Order No. 3915-2017), Rosenstein directed him to investigate*“any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump.”***It fails to identify any specific crimes, likely because none are applicable.

                                Way to go, Doctor!
                                I don't know if the order could be described as "illegal." The problem is that the special counsel statute was designed for investigations of crimes, not counter-intelligence investigations.
                                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                                Comment

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