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Vegas shooter; What EXACTLY is going on here?

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  • Vegas shooter; What EXACTLY is going on here?

    Once again, the truth is parsed, shopped up and concealed from us. This routine is getting more annoying (to me, anyway) and with hundreds of aggrieved survivors to put the pressure on, you would think that the bureaucracy could be penetrated this time.
    No such luck.

    Los Angeles Times - Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...009-story.html

    He is now isolated from the public by armed security guards who will not reveal who they work for.
    Odds are the security guard dies in a freak accident, soon.


    Disobedient Media asks, What Was Going On With MGM Resorts In September?
    On Tuesday, September 5th, 2017, the board of MGM Resorts International decided to approve a $1 billion share repurchase program. At a market cap of $17.7 billion today, the program represented a significant portion of its current market cap. By the end of the week, MGM's CEO, James Murren, had coolly divested himself of 80% of the shares he owned in his company. The divestment came just days before the ex-dividend date on September 8th, 2017.
    https://disobedientmedia.com/2017/10...-in-september/


    What happened to Paddock's airplanes? Here's one of 'em. The current owner, according to the FlightAware data
    https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N5343M
    is in Roanoke Virginia. The data references a company
    http://www.volant-associates.com
    with a mission statement that includes, "... helping address the future challenges for the nation's defense and intelligence communities", claiming particular skill in "inter-agency intelligence coordination".


    Karl "hang 'em high" Denninger has this to say about Las Vegas, at Market-Ticker:
    We're learning more but there's much being withheld, intentionally so. If you've been paying attention to the "press conferences" you've detected that the LEOs out there are quite-intentionally not telling us more than they are talking about and they're worried about something too. We'll eventually find out what the "something" is, and I bet we won't like it one bit.
    "Eventually" may mean the facts will be sequestered for fifty years—while DC and the media concoct and circulate plausible but conflicting theories—to be made available, heavily redacted, two generations from now when the event has become so tiresome for so long it's of interest mainly to antiquarians
    Business as usual, in other words.


    Ann Coulter has also noticed information is being constricted and the press seems incurious, as she says in her blog:


    MEDIA FIND LAS VEGAS SHOOTER'S MOTIVE: HE'S WHITE!
    Within hours of the first indictments in the Duke lacrosse case -- later, all thrown out -- the media was bristling with information about the players' parents, the homes they grew up in, the ritziness of their neighborhoods, and the tuition at their Catholic high schools. Doesn't any reporter want to ask Danley anything?

    Do we know yet why Paddock broke two windows? What were his recent winnings or losses at gambling?

    I don't know if any of this would change the basic narrative. But the media don't know, either, and they seem strangely reluctant to ask. As Sherlock Holmes said: First, you exclude the impossible, and whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Our media isn't doing the reporting that would allow us to exclude anything. And then they wonder why conspiracy theories develop.
    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-10-04.html

    And that headline is basically all we are to be left with.
    If we put up with that kind of crap, we deserve what comes next.

  • #2
    Sounds like you're advancing a conspiracy theory, so why don't you tell us?
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Sounds like you're advancing a conspiracy theory, so why don't you tell us?
      No, I'm not.
      I am setting facts out there for all to see, and I am not advancing any Conspiracy Theory... I leave that for the millions out there that are already doing that.
      I'm just showing you how easy it would be, and WHY it is happening.

      Until the Govt comes out with a complete and truthful accounting of what went down and how (you know, like they used to do in the good ol' days of the 20th century) then all the theorists in the world are going to have a field day with this one.
      Just like always.

      I'm sick of it.
      All I want is the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth.
      Why is that always too much to ask these days?

      Comment


      • #4
        The truth will be hidden by the media, because if it comes out, it will hurt the liberals .

        Comment


        • #5
          Post deleted for proscribed personal comment - ACG staff
          Last edited by Skoblin; 16 Oct 17, 01:53.
          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin

          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            Once again, the truth is parsed, shopped up and concealed from us. This routine is getting more annoying (to me, anyway) and with hundreds of aggrieved survivors to put the pressure on, you would think that the bureaucracy could be penetrated this time.
            No such luck.

            Los Angeles Times - Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal

            http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...009-story.html

            He is now isolated from the public by armed security guards who will not reveal who they work for.
            Odds are the security guard dies in a freak accident, soon.


            Disobedient Media asks, What Was Going On With MGM Resorts In September?

            https://disobedientmedia.com/2017/10...-in-september/


            What happened to Paddock's airplanes? Here's one of 'em. The current owner, according to the FlightAware data
            https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N5343M
            is in Roanoke Virginia. The data references a company
            http://www.volant-associates.com
            with a mission statement that includes, "... helping address the future challenges for the nation's defense and intelligence communities", claiming particular skill in "inter-agency intelligence coordination".


            Karl "hang 'em high" Denninger has this to say about Las Vegas, at Market-Ticker:


            "Eventually" may mean the facts will be sequestered for fifty years—while DC and the media concoct and circulate plausible but conflicting theories—to be made available, heavily redacted, two generations from now when the event has become so tiresome for so long it's of interest mainly to antiquarians
            Business as usual, in other words.


            Ann Coulter has also noticed information is being constricted and the press seems incurious, as she says in her blog:


            MEDIA FIND LAS VEGAS SHOOTER'S MOTIVE: HE'S WHITE!


            http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-10-04.html

            And that headline is basically all we are to be left with.
            If we put up with that kind of crap, we deserve what comes next.
            Coulter, are you hard up for a source of info. Next Alex Jones.
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Occam's Razor: all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.

              Haven't media and law enforcement organizations in recent years publicly endeavored to restrict information about these spree killings in order to not encourage the inevitable copycats that always come out of the woodwork following these tragedies?
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Occam's Razor: all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.
                I couldn't agree more.

                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Haven't media and law enforcement organizations in recent years publicly endeavored to restrict information about these spree killings in order to not encourage the inevitable copycats that always come out of the woodwork following these tragedies?
                That could well be the case.
                And if it is, it's time to admit that it ain't working.

                Any of those copycats can imagine that the latest shooter's cause was there own when the truth is blacked-out, redacted, concealed, or whatever you want to call it.
                Lunatics can have rather active imaginations, or so they tell us.

                And moreover; how about a truthful and accurate time-line and outline of events?
                I remember that the Munich massacre and Jonestown mass (enforced) suicide Time Magazine had perfectly reliable outlines and diagrams of the relevant events in their very next issue.
                Time is a weekly magazine, for you milenials out there.
                It has been over 2 weeks since Vegas and we still don't have anything but 4-5 revisions and fragmented B.S.

                This is the kind of crap that breeds conspiracy-whackos and lets clowns like Alex Jones grab people's attention.
                Want an example? I won't say who said it (not AJ) but this morning I heard that a girl named Kimberly (something) who was there said she knew for a fact that there were 2 shooters and she would go wild until someone fessed up and admitted the truth.
                This 28 year-old woman died last weekend, of 'natural' causes.

                Now, do you think that anything like that would get any traction if the authorities were willing to come clean ... about anything... these days?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                  I couldn't agree more.


                  That could well be the case.
                  And if it is, it's time to admit that it ain't working.

                  Any of those copycats can imagine that the latest shooter's cause was there own when the truth is blacked-out, redacted, concealed, or whatever you want to call it.
                  Lunatics can have rather active imaginations, or so they tell us.

                  And moreover; how about a truthful and accurate time-line and outline of events?
                  I remember that the Munich massacre and Jonestown mass (enforced) suicide Time Magazine had perfectly reliable outlines and diagrams of the relevant events in their very next issue.
                  Time is a weekly magazine, for you milenials out there.
                  It has been over 2 weeks since Vegas and we still don't have anything but 4-5 revisions and fragmented B.S.

                  This is the kind of crap that breeds conspiracy-whackos and lets clowns like Alex Jones grab people's attention.
                  Want an example? I won't say who said it (not AJ) but this morning I heard that a girl named Kimberly (something) who was there said she knew for a fact that there were 2 shooters and she would go wild until someone fessed up and admitted the truth.
                  This 28 year-old woman died last weekend, of 'natural' causes.

                  Now, do you think that anything like that would get any traction if the authorities were willing to come clean ... about anything... these days?
                  The inherent problem is that conspiracy theories exist in a void of factual evidence by feeding on doubt and maybes. And being up front with the facts doesn't even work when they are clear and free from reasonable doubt - see the moon landing hoax for how a large movement can exist in the face of direct, confrontational evidence by all those involved.

                  Even in that world, the room for "doubt" exist. We could go down the line of how being open and honest and accurate with the facts can be nearly irrelevant at times. Hell, Big Foot and Nessie have all been debunked by the men who started those hoaxes, and they still have many adherents.

                  Personally, I consider Hanlon's Razor as just as important in our philosophical tool box.

                  The Vegas shooting was a tragedy, a chaotic mess, with lots of unknowns and questions hanging over it, including a perpetrator who left no note and no witnesses. It is an incredible tragedy, a disaster... and an ongoing investigation that encapsulates all of those issues. The police have admitted multiple times they have a lot of questions they just don't know the answers to. They've appealed for help from the public because of just how little they don't know.

                  When connecting the dots, the simplest answer, in terms of both razors, is just that - they don't know. They're humans in a bureaucracy. If one rejects all the "missing answers" as being just that, there isn't much of a case for there being anything more sinister at work than what we should expect.

                  Whether or not the authorities come clean is, in the end, inconsequential to the most devout of believers. The police could have said nothing from day 1, or they could have invited in live coverage of the officers at work, and there would still be people decrying it as covering up key details.

                  In the end, I think we are just seeing the greatest human fear at work: fear of the unknown. If this shooter had left a suicide note detailing his thoughts, or claimed victory for ISIS, or demanded a separate racially pure state, most of the interest in the investigation would have dried up, mistaken timeline or not. But because "why" isnt there, people will dig for one - or create their own. Add into this a sort of pseudo-skepticism and internet tabloid "journalism" and there is fertile ground for conspiracy regardless of how well the officials handle the investigation.

                  And since this is being handled by the public sector, I'm going to just lean even more heavily on the "expect a lot of mistakes, simple errors, political meddling, and bureaucratic nonsense for quite some time" argument.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                    ... But because "why" isnt there, people will dig for one - or create their own. Add into this a sort of pseudo-skepticism and internet tabloid "journalism" and there is fertile ground for conspiracy regardless of how well the officials handle the investigation.
                    I'm not talking about that. That is exactly the same old thing that is first used to shoot down every single question of the official line, and I am not even getting into any of the theories.
                    Not a single one.
                    All I am doing is pointing out the shortcomings of the the lines we are being fed by a Govt-controlled media.

                    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                    And since this is being handled by the public sector, I'm going to just lean even more heavily on the "expect a lot of mistakes, simple errors, political meddling, and bureaucratic nonsense for quite some time" argument.
                    Then isn't it high time somebody lit a fire under them?


                    This is from the Free Thought Project, about the timeline change in the Las Vegas shooting:
                    According to the first official timeline, Campos was shot in the leg while checking on an alarm. According to the original police-reported timeline, Paddock never fired on the crowd below again after shooting Campos.

                    But now, we are being told that is not what happened and we should believe their new story which is completely different. To be clear, this information was simple to find out as all they had to do was ask Campos who was only shot in the leg before he began shooting.
                    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/off...changes-vegas/


                    Did they ask Campos? If not, why not? If yes, did he change his story? In case you missed it, the timeline changed again late Friday when the Sheriff said Paddock didn't shoot the hotel security guard at 9:59 after all, it was 10:05
                    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-police.html


                    The closer we look at the facts, the less factual they become—exactly when Paddock checked in, who called who and when, stuff like that. And if we don't like the official facts, Mandalay's management has a different set . Facts don't change, hence the name, but stories do, and usually for a reason
                    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...012-story.html

                    Jesus Campos acts like a man with something to hide. Oddly, he turns out not to be licensed to work security in Nevada , and he was unarmed, almost as if his citizenship status isn't all it should be. Then, minutes before a scheduled tevee interview, his union rep said Campos disappeared . Do the investigators know where he is?
                    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017...ate-of-nevada/

                    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/13...nterviews.html

                    Meanwhile, over at Paddock's house, someone broke in after the police searched it and boarded it up. Hmm. Seems risky, especially if the place was under surveillance. If this were a detective novel we'd suspect there was something in there important enough to retrieve.

                    The SWAT team covered themselves with something other than glory. So far the investigation doesn't inspire confidence. Every time we think we know something, we don't. The news media, strangely incurious, is less interested in finding answers than pushing more gun control. The vacuum's being filled with cockamamie theories that mostly defy physics and common sense. The only thing in short supply here is facts that stay facts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Heroes and Zeros in Las Vegas -

                      Between the time that Campos was shot and Paddock began shooting, Campos notified authorities of what happened, which Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Undersheriff Kevin McMahill said Friday was “absolutely critical” as it gave police Paddock’s exact location.


                      And then what happened?
                      Where was the SWAT Team?
                      Well, when seconds count, the LV Police are only an hour and a quarter away...


                      Those primped-up clowns up-armored, up-armed and then sat in the ****ing stairway for over an hour despite knowing this dickhead was loaded up and actively shooting innocent, unarmed and defenseless civilians from above.

                      The cops sat on their asses while the gunman shot and killed all the people in the crowd despite having every ability to stop it before it ever happened while knowing exactly where he was.

                      If you, in the military, sat and cowered behind hard cover while the enemy shot up your unit your ass would sit in front of a court martial for cowardice before the enemy under Article 99, you'd be convicted, you would go to Leavenworth as you'd be charged with those deaths due to your intentional inaction and then you'd get a dishonorable discharge when your sentence was served.

                      It is in fact possible under Article 99 to get the death penalty for cowardice of this sort in a military unit.
                      much more -
                      http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232448

                      Yup, Market-Ticker, of all things.
                      Now, I suppose there will be all sorts of ad-lib attacks on this source that have nothing to do with the information presented or even the subject matter... but instead are 100% emotional grand-standing meant to obscure the facts.
                      You know, just like always.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The SWAT team was afraid because he had a gun and had proven that he knew how and was willing to use it. It's more fun being Billy Badass when it's a bunch of unarmed protesters and the like. Remember, the most important thing is for them to go home at night. All that "serve and protect" stuff is just something for PR.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                          I'm not talking about that. That is exactly the same old thing that is first used to shoot down every single question of the official line, and I am not even getting into any of the theories.
                          Not a single one.
                          All I am doing is pointing out the shortcomings of the the lines we are being fed by a Govt-controlled media.



                          Then isn't it high time somebody lit a fire under them?


                          This is from the Free Thought Project, about the timeline change in the Las Vegas shooting:

                          http://thefreethoughtproject.com/off...changes-vegas/


                          Did they ask Campos? If not, why not? If yes, did he change his story? In case you missed it, the timeline changed again late Friday when the Sheriff said Paddock didn't shoot the hotel security guard at 9:59 after all, it was 10:05
                          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-police.html


                          The closer we look at the facts, the less factual they become—exactly when Paddock checked in, who called who and when, stuff like that. And if we don't like the official facts, Mandalay's management has a different set . Facts don't change, hence the name, but stories do, and usually for a reason
                          http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...012-story.html

                          Jesus Campos acts like a man with something to hide. Oddly, he turns out not to be licensed to work security in Nevada , and he was unarmed, almost as if his citizenship status isn't all it should be. Then, minutes before a scheduled tevee interview, his union rep said Campos disappeared . Do the investigators know where he is?
                          http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017...ate-of-nevada/

                          http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/13...nterviews.html

                          Meanwhile, over at Paddock's house, someone broke in after the police searched it and boarded it up. Hmm. Seems risky, especially if the place was under surveillance. If this were a detective novel we'd suspect there was something in there important enough to retrieve.

                          The SWAT team covered themselves with something other than glory. So far the investigation doesn't inspire confidence. Every time we think we know something, we don't. The news media, strangely incurious, is less interested in finding answers than pushing more gun control. The vacuum's being filled with cockamamie theories that mostly defy physics and common sense. The only thing in short supply here is facts that stay facts.
                          Which brings me back to my main point: do we have anything to suggest this is anything than just a mixture of incompetence, confusion and bureaucracy at play?

                          I mean, when you have in your post lines like "government controlled media" it kinda alters the perspective a little because already presupposes a conspiracy (since the news media is supposedly not government controlled... ) which is something you say you're trying to avoid.

                          But in the end, this all just boils back down to what, exactly, is the point of focusing on these timeline changes, as an example. If it's just "the police screwed up" then fair play. Acknowledging mistakes being made is important, in that sense, so we can try to avoid them in the future. But if that's it, then let's just say it's that and move on. If it's "we think the police screwed up" then it just comes back around to the incompetence angle.

                          But facts are useless outside of context, and the context of them when provided often seems to be suggestive of something more. It's like the old "Clinton Murder Files" baloney - even if every name and death on the list were legitimate, the purpose of assembling those "facts" is still in service of an agenda. So what is the agenda of those looking into the shooting so closely? Is it just being a law enforcement watch dog? It most certainly could be, and as I said before, if so, then fair play to them.

                          But I have a sneaking suspicion thats not it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                            No, I'm not.
                            I am setting facts out there for all to see, and I am not advancing any Conspiracy Theory... I leave that for the millions out there that are already doing that.
                            I'm just showing you how easy it would be, and WHY it is happening.

                            Until the Govt comes out with a complete and truthful accounting of what went down and how (you know, like they used to do in the good ol' days of the 20th century) then all the theorists in the world are going to have a field day with this one.
                            Just like always.

                            I'm sick of it.
                            All I want is the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth.
                            Why is that always too much to ask these days?
                            To paraphrase the late, great Jack Nicholson, because the governments of the world "can't handle the truth".

                            If our government, today,told us the total truth abut its operations, America would fall within a week.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                              Which brings me back to my main point: do we have anything to suggest this is anything than just a mixture of incompetence, confusion and bureaucracy at play?
                              Certainly not.
                              However, for my part, I do NOT see this as making it all better, and being a justifiable excuse to just forget about it all and let them just sweep it under the rug!!!

                              Incompetence, stupidity and an unwieldy & counterproductive bureaucracy are NOT good things.
                              They are problems that need to be corrected.
                              They are NOT good excuses, they are indications that the upper levels of the establishment require a good purging. It won't be easy, those addicted to power never like to retire early, but it has to be done unless you like to be Lorded-over by scumbags.


                              Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                              I mean, when you have in your post lines like "government controlled media" it kinda alters the perspective a little because already presupposes a conspiracy (since the news media is supposedly not government controlled... ) which is something you say you're trying to avoid.
                              Yup, I may have gone wrong there, but you have to admit that Journalism, and I mean the investigative kind, is pretty much dead outside of the New Media.
                              They got lazy and dumb in the last ten years, and just read it off the usual sources now, most of which are from the Govt.
                              Maybe not Govt 'controlled', but have you heard all the montages of all of them using the same words to describe the same things at the same time?
                              I can post a few, if you like.

                              Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                              But in the end, this all just boils back down to what, exactly, is the point of focusing on these timeline changes, as an example. If it's just "the police screwed up" then fair play. Acknowledging mistakes being made is important, in that sense, so we can try to avoid them in the future. But if that's it, then let's just say it's that and move on. If it's "we think the police screwed up" then it just comes back around to the incompetence angle.
                              And from a slightly different angle, come back around to the same point I made at the top of this post.

                              Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                              But facts are useless outside of context, and the context of them when provided often seems to be suggestive of something more. It's like the old "Clinton Murder Files" baloney - even if every name and death on the list were legitimate, the purpose of assembling those "facts" is still in service of an agenda. So what is the agenda of those looking into the shooting so closely? Is it just being a law enforcement watch dog? It most certainly could be, and as I said before, if so, then fair play to them.

                              But I have a sneaking suspicion thats not it.
                              So, you think I am being like a 9/11 "Truther" that still claims that GW Bush was behind everything that happened that day?
                              That is a pretty gross insult, but let me tell you what told me that whole thing was pure B.S.; every single one of the people that were behind that thing all hated Bush.
                              Every damned one of them.
                              So, who would I have to hate to be attacking all the foolish and inconsistent and constantly changing stories about this event that are coming from official sources and the "media of record" ?

                              And btw- unlike the 9/11 or JFK theorists, I am (1) not waiting months or years to voice my ideas (2) I am not advocating ANY alternate theories.
                              Did you miss that part?
                              Guess so, from the paragraph above.

                              My only agenda here is to kick some incompetent butts try to get the establishment to be a little honest about something, anything, for a change.
                              And if they weren't totally bass-ackwards in every possible way, how could I be finding new things to bring up every day all week long?

                              Today -

                              MEDIA BEGGING US FOR CONSPIRACY THEORIES ON LAS VEGAS
                              Now the media are just taunting us with their tall tales about Stephen Paddock, the alleged Las Vegas shooter.
                              Reputedly serious news organizations are claiming that Stephen Paddock made a living playing video poker. That's like claiming someone made a living smoking crack. So why are the media insistent that Paddock was getting rich by playing video poker? The most likely explanation is that the reporters and investigators are incompetent nitwits. But the changing facts from law enforcement and preposterous lies from the press aren't doing a lot to tamp down alternative theories of the crime. Losing a percent or two on millions of dollars doesn't make sense as an investment strategy, but it does make sense as a money laundering operation.
                              http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-10-11.html

                              It has been a while since I have been to Vegas, but even I know that they don't 'comp' rooms for guys that show up all the time and do more winning than losing.
                              Last edited by The Exorcist; 19 Oct 17, 13:08.

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