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  • #76
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    Evil intent is a given. The tools that they use should be obvious. How many mass killings in schools were committed using a tire iron or pressure cooker?
    .
    You make a fair point, but how do you keep guns out of the hands of people with evil intent?

    If they are mentally ill, we don't know about that until after they act. Even if we force everyone to submit to mental health exams (which would be unconstitutional) that would only tells us the person is sane "today".

    If they are barred by law from buying firearms due to a prior conviction, they are not going to buy the gun legally.

    The BS about more regulations and "tightening" background checks sounds like the campaign promise to weed out waste and corruption.
    Vague promises that will never effectively be implemented.

    If you demand a ban, our opinions don't matter as the constitution controls that issue.
    So, what reasonable solution has been offered?
    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
      So, what reasonable solution has been offered?
      PROHIBITION!

      See how well it's working to resolve the opioid crisis.

      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        PROHIBITION!

        See how well it's working to resolve the opioid crisis.


        You're right.
        I wonder how australia stopped drugs being imported from narco states on its borders.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
          You're right.
          I wonder how australia stopped drugs being imported from narco states on its borders.
          I don't think that bothers 'em too much: they're all brain damaged anyway.

          Rimshot

          But seriously folks . . . . which countries suffer from drug gang warfare? We know that Mexico does, so their gun ban is utterly meaningless. Same stands in many places in the US, like Chicago and Camden NJ: gun laws in NJ are very strict, nearly as strict as NYC, but Camden's nearly as dangerous as Afghanistan. That, at least in my mind, seems to be the No 1 indicator of armed violence: the prevalence of major wholesale narcotics operations. I believe as it is on the municipal scale, so too does the same hold true on the national scale, as well.
          Last edited by slick_miester; 02 Mar 18, 09:12. Reason: I can't spell. "D'oh!"
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            I don't think that bothers 'em too much: they're all brain damaged anyway.

            Rimshot

            But seriously folks . . . . which countries suffer from drug gang warfare? We know that Mexico does, so their gun ban is utterly meaningless. Same stands in many places in the US, like Chicago and Camden NJ: gun laws in NJ are very strict, nearly as strict as NYC, but Camden's nearly as dangerous as Afghanistan. That, at least in my mind, seems to be the No 1 indicator of armed violence: the prevalence of major wholesale narcotics operations. I believe as it is on the municipal scale, so too does the same hold true on the national scale, as well.


            Well said and true.
            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
              You're right.
              I wonder how australia stopped drugs being imported from narco states on its borders.
              Australia is an island continent. It has no "narco states on it's borders".
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Australia is an island continent. It has no "narco states on it's borders".


                I was aware. I just find it interesting that the people who keep claiming that Australia's gun ban solved the problem and as a result it would work here.
                Maybe it would work if we were an island too
                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                  I was aware. I just find it interesting that the people who keep claiming that Australia's gun ban solved the problem and as a result it would work here.
                  Maybe it would work if we were an island too
                  It wouldn't. America lacks the political will to stop anything, as witnessed by our border problems and our airport security problems.

                  If we hired Israel to do it, we would be highly secure within a year at most.

                  Either a nation has the stones or it doesn't. American leadership does not.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                    I was aware. I just find it interesting that the people who keep claiming that Australia's gun ban solved the problem and as a result it would work here.
                    Maybe it would work if we were an island too





                    The people who bring Australia's example point at the difference in mass shootings before and after Australia's gun laws. Australia was and is an island, and certainly did not and does not have the drug problem that the US has. But mass shootings have nothing to do with drugs. Mass shooters are not gang members with connections to underground crime, drugs and weapons. They are "amateurs", often without prior record who could get guns not because of any connections they had but because it has become easy in the US, even for an" amateur," to get military grade weapons...
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                      PROHIBITION!

                      See how well it's working to resolve the opioid crisis.

                      Not really a good example since we let pharmas and doctors aggressively push prescription opioid drugs...
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by pamak View Post
                        Not really a good example since we let pharmas and doctors aggressively push prescription opioid drugs...
                        But we don't let them go out and shoot their competitors over street corners . . . . Nevertheless, I know of no where in the US when heroin is legal, and I know of no opioids that con be sold and/or administered legally without an MD's prescription. Nevertheless, despite heavy regulation of the trade for better than a century now, despite the fact the there has existed a Federal agency tasked with enforcing those regulations for nearly as long, the rate of opioid use among the general population hasn't moved all that much over the last ~45 years. Yeah, there have been dips and blips, but overall, the rates of use and addiction have remained remarkably steady all throughout our "war on drugs." So the question is, has draconian regulation and enforcement as represented by the "war on drugs" in fact impacted rates of usage?
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by pamak View Post
                          The people who bring Australia's example point at the difference in mass shootings before and after Australia's gun laws. Australia was and is an island, and certainly did not and does not have the drug problem that the US has. But mass shootings have nothing to do with drugs. Mass shooters are not gang members with connections to underground crime, drugs and weapons. They are "amateurs", often without prior record who could get guns not because of any connections they had but because it has become easy in the US, even for an" amateur," to get military grade weapons...


                          You may not have noticed, but I never said any of the things you are attempting to correct.

                          Since you didn't get my point, I will explain it a little more bluntly.

                          Banning guns in the US will not result the the disappearance of guns in this country because it is unlikely that the already heavily armed narco gangs that come across the border will give up their weapons.

                          The millions of guns already in the hands of the various criminal gangs across the US will stay in those hands.

                          I never said that it was gang members who were responsible for mass shootings. I wasn't talking about school shootings at all, I was talking about the effectiveness of implementing Australia's approach here.

                          Why are we only concerned with mass shootings?
                          Annually, thousands are shot by the drug gangs and related criminals. Why aren't those lives important?

                          I'm fairly sure that the military does not use the weapon that was used in the parkland shooting, but feel free to use buzz words like "military grade" instead of calling what it is. A semi automatic rifle.
                          As for australia, the topic on this page is in reference to the word "Prohibition". Since it is in bold, I can't imagine you missed it.
                          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                            But we don't let them go out and shoot their competitors over street corners . . . . Nevertheless, I know of no where in the US when heroin is legal, and I know of no opioids that con be sold and/or administered legally without an MD's prescription. Nevertheless, despite heavy regulation of the trade for better than a century now, despite the fact the there has existed a Federal agency tasked with enforcing those regulations for nearly as long, the rate of opioid use among the general population hasn't moved all that much over the last ~45 years. Yeah, there have been dips and blips, but overall, the rates of use and addiction have remained remarkably steady all throughout our "war on drugs." So the question is, has draconian regulation and enforcement as represented by the "war on drugs" in fact impacted rates of usage?
                            But do you actually know that the number of deaths from prescription overdose are more than the number deaths from heroin and cocaine combined and that about half of the young heroin users were previously users of prescription drugs?

                            Here is a link about

                            https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...ion-drug-abuse

                            It is only recently that I see that people start realizing the magnitude of the problem with the wide circulation of legal opioid drugs. The link below i from Session's DOJ

                            https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attor...ion-task-force
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              You may not have noticed, but I never said any of the things you are attempting to correct.

                              Since you didn't get my point, I will explain it a little more bluntly.

                              Banning guns in the US will not result the the disappearance of guns in this country because it is unlikely that the already heavily armed narco gangs that come across the border will give up their weapons.

                              The millions of guns already in the hands of the various criminal gangs across the US will stay in those hands.

                              I never said that it was gang members who were responsible for mass shootings. I wasn't talking about school shootings at all, I was talking about the effectiveness of implementing Australia's approach here.

                              Why are we only concerned with mass shootings?
                              Annually, thousands are shot by the drug gangs and related criminals. Why aren't those lives important?

                              I'm fairly sure that the military does not use the weapon that was used in the parkland shooting, but feel free to use buzz words like "military grade" instead of calling what it is. A semi automatic rifle.
                              As for australia, the topic on this page is in reference to the word "Prohibition". Since it is in bold, I can't imagine you missed it.
                              Well, you did not get my point. I was talking about the lack of link between mass shootings in the US and drug gangs. So my point is that certain gun restrictions may actually be effective in the US because the usually "amateurs" mass shooters do not have the connections that gang members have to get what they want. Amateurs also do not have the experience to get what they want without getting caught in the process...
                              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by pamak View Post
                                But do you actually know that the number of deaths from prescription overdose are more than the number deaths from heroin and cocaine combined and that about half of the young heroin users were previously users of prescription drugs?
                                And virtually all of those decedents used prescription meds ILLEGALLY. That's the caveat. Opioids are powerful, but they are useful -- when used correctly. Indeed, practitioners in other countries are claiming that the US' war on drugs is impacting their patients negatively, because they can't procure opioids for use on palliative patients, therefore they're dieing in far more pain than is necessary. On a Federal level, opioid regulation far outstrips firearms regulation, with the exception of fully-automatic weapons. Every scrip for codeine must be accompanied by a special DEA Schedule II or III form. The amount of paperwork generated by opioid prescriptions far-and-away exceeds that generated by firearms sales/transfers -- and yet we're in the midst of an opioid "crisis." So the question still stands: how effective has all that opioid regulation been?
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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