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GOP Senator Asks Trump If He’s ‘Recanting’ Constitutional Oath

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    One of the things that's positive is the economy, things are looking up.
    Economically I've come out quite ahead this year. I can't say for certain it would have been worse under Clinton... but I certainly think it really, really hard.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
      To be fair, some of this dismissal comes from trump bashing fatigue. If you scream and howl nonsense long enough, you get dismissed on the rare occasions you make sense. It's the classic boy who cried wolf psychology.

      For my part I have my criticisms of Trump and always have but I'm through with the left wing hate machine. I know Trump is flawed. I'm simply no longer interested in hearing it ad nauseum. It's the intellectual equivalent of a flooded market. When you're selling something that is in abundance, it has little market value. I'm not denying Trump has problems. But the market is played out. I've heard everything of value and dismissed the slag. The only thing I'm interested in hearing now are better offers. "Trump sucks" isn't a better offer.
      The problem is that this is universal. We've seen it with every president in modern history. The words might change, but the repetitive noise is a given. But the idiotic baloney screamed about Obama didn't make all criticism of him irrelevant in turn. Now we have Trump on the firing line and many want to use this same excuse used with Obama, where the loud kooks taint everything negative.

      Worse, the movement of the goalposts can be used to further dismiss criticism. I mean heck, so much of what Trump lies about - and I do mean lie about - is fairly banal stuff in the big picture. Crowd sizes, for example, don't truly matter in the grand scheme of things. But pointing them out as an example of his character or his personal habits is a valid tactic to use... but many who defend Trump will throw that away as being nothing more than "Trump sucks".

      I saw a chunk of this under Obama, where the moronic birthers (along with the "he's a socialist Muslim communist spy!" looms) were often used as a shield against legitimate criticisms of his administration. But as I said in another thread, the behavior of Trump has invited a far different response because it is both unprecedented and unconcerned with traditional message and image control.

      Obama and Bush were still politicians. They have behaved like statesmen - not saints, not perfect, but as one would expect from a political leader. Trump engages in fights on Twitter. The criticism of such behavior is, due to the arena he has moved into, going to carry some of that taint. Think about how many times Dubya and Big O directly insulted people and organizations in public speeches. Honestly, think about how many times they deliberately did so - and then think about Trump. How many dozens of tweets can we pull up from this year? This month?

      And that sort of comes back around to the ad nauseum nature of some of these criticisms. The reason many are repeated is because... well, they continue. One could criticize Obamacare repeatedly due to its enduring nature as a government program. It remained in place, there, lurking like an animal. But when Democrats complained about it - or complained about how people wouldn't stop talking about Hillary's emails - it didn't make those critics less correct, their arguments less valid.

      Maybe the best way to sum this up is just to say that it no matter how petty, repetitive or banal some of a politicians critics are, it doesn't make the politician or their policies inherently better in comparison.

      And seeing so much of the debate surrounding the current president framed as "Oh, that's just more pro-/anti-Trump drivel" just puts a damper on real insight into our current predicament.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
        The problem is that this is universal. We've seen it with every president in modern history. The words might change, but the repetitive noise is a given. But the idiotic baloney screamed about Obama didn't make all criticism of him irrelevant in turn. Now we have Trump on the firing line and many want to use this same excuse used with Obama, where the loud kooks taint everything negative.
        I will say that we are in unprecedented circumstances though. While there were birther nuts for Obama, 9/11 Truthers for Bush et cetera what we see here is unprecedented volume. Truthers, birthers, and friends were all marginalized cooks. But TDS is a pretty large movement with massive amounts of content. This drives the fatigue factor up higher and faster. It would be nice to analyze everything said about Trump individually, but with the hate train mass producing fake news by the load it almost forces one to engage in a group trial. There isn't enough time in the universe to analyze all the hate piece by piece. That crazy train is longer than a complete DNA code.

        I use a simple system. If an argument begins with an ad hominem, it goes straight to the intellectual spam folder. Do not pass go, do not get taken seriously. If someone says Trump is doing this, but he should do this I'm more inclined to hear it out. But if it begins with name calling, adios. And that filters a good 90% of Trump criticism. Which says something about the critics.

        Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
        Worse, the movement of the goalposts can be used to further dismiss criticism. I mean heck, so much of what Trump lies about - and I do mean lie about - is fairly banal stuff in the big picture. Crowd sizes, for example, don't truly matter in the grand scheme of things. But pointing them out as an example of his character or his personal habits is a valid tactic to use... but many who defend Trump will throw that away as being nothing more than "Trump sucks".
        With me it's also a case of not caring as much about attitude. Historically there have been great leaders who were real pricks. Even America's beloved George Washington was a real bear to work with according to his subordinates. So my question is: are you getting results? If Trump steps down North Korea I could care less if his press conferences consisted of him breaking wind into the microphone and raising his middle finger slowly while turning his hand like a crank and humming pop goes the weasel. Good economy? Good national security? Good job. Here's your biscuit. Bad economy? Bad national security? Go stand in the corner. This is why I've been trashing the GOP. They're my party but to quote the greatest line from Days of Thunder they "look like a monkey a football out there". Trump meanwhile is definitely flawed, but he's cooling North Korea down and the left hasn't offered me a better option. I'm still waiting for my Pepsi challenge and they're still trying to sell me poo and claiming that it's not as poo-y as Trump.

        Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
        I saw a chunk of this under Obama, where the moronic birthers (along with the "he's a socialist Muslim communist spy!" looms) were often used as a shield against legitimate criticisms of his administration. But as I said in another thread, the behavior of Trump has invited a far different response because it is both unprecedented and unconcerned with traditional message and image control.

        Obama and Bush were still politicians. They have behaved like statesmen - not saints, not perfect, but as one would expect from a political leader. Trump engages in fights on Twitter. The criticism of such behavior is, due to the arena he has moved into, going to carry some of that taint. Think about how many times Dubya and Big O directly insulted people and organizations in public speeches. Honestly, think about how many times they deliberately did so - and then think about Trump. How many dozens of tweets can we pull up from this year? This month?

        And that sort of comes back around to the ad nauseum nature of some of these criticisms. The reason many are repeated is because... well, they continue. One could criticize Obamacare repeatedly due to its enduring nature as a government program. It remained in place, there, lurking like an animal. But when Democrats complained about it - or complained about how people wouldn't stop talking about Hillary's emails - it didn't make those critics less correct, their arguments less valid.

        Maybe the best way to sum this up is just to say that it no matter how petty, repetitive or banal some of a politicians critics are, it doesn't make the politician or their policies inherently better in comparison.

        And seeing so much of the debate surrounding the current president framed as "Oh, that's just more pro-/anti-Trump drivel" just puts a damper on real insight into our current predicament.
        I see what you're saying, but it would help if it wasn't mostly drivel.

        For many Americans who are tuning out from ALL political discussion - the ones you won't even see on forums like this because they are through with everyone - you can tell them that there is gold in a river of media manure and be technically right. But most of them just don't feel that the flecks of gold are worth wading in the manure for. Psychologically, they're just tired of the mess.
        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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        • #34
          Who was one of the leading birthers?

          The gold comes straight out of your Trump's mouth in press conference aand his own vids. Not a thing need from other news sources.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
            No. YOU are talking about words coming out of Trump's mouth. The problem is, that's not selling me anything. That's the problem the left needs to address with their advertising. Right now the GOP is completely pooch screwing the victory they were given on a golden platter and Trump was elected on a "well its better than Clinton" option. Believe me the field is PRIMED for you guys to present a viable alternative and voters like me are meritocrats who will cross the aisle if the other side does better and our party keeps fumbling. But you're still selling me the same goods: Trump is evil trump is evil trump is evil. And these are goods I am clearly not interested in buying.

            Instead of trying to sell me on Trump being evil, maybe try selling me on how another candidate is good. Give me a Pepsi challenge instead of trying to tell me that one plate of poo is preferable to the other plate of poo. Believe me after the GOPs performance this year I will listen to any sales pitch that isn't just "Trump bad".
            One of the problems seems to be that you think anyone that is anti-Trump is from the left or a Clinton supporter. Some are just anti Trump who see him as totally ill.

            The last go around the Dems offered nobody. GOP perhaps one that I could have supported but he didn't win the nomination. This last election the country got screwed by the system and that more than once.
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

            Comment

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