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Graham defends McCain from Trump attack

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  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    No, what it would mean is that the people shouting "RINO!" have it backwards - those they call RINO actually represent the GOP, while it is those they hold up as true stalwarts who are the actual RINOs.

    If the majority of the GOP are RINOs, then that RINO ideology is in fact the true GOP ideology, and it is those opposing them who have become, in effect, the actual RINOs by opposing the mainstream.
    I've lived long enough to see it all: Republicans seeking ideological purity, just like college campus socialists of eras past. The Big Tent is dead. Ronald Reagan is dead. Barry Goldwater is definitely dead. For some reason not at all apparent to me, most of today's "RINO" shouters resemble Dixie-crats of old than they do Republicans.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by JML View Post
    They donated money to Hillary because they thought that she would win. They were buying influence.
    Not correct : they wanted Hillary to win,and to help her they donated money : they had already donated money to Hillary (2.5 billion) before she was a candidate .

    Leave a comment:


  • JML
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    That is not true : big money is political : big money did not donate to Trump but to Hillary,because big money supports the political ideas of Hillary .

    It was also so in the past : Harriman donated to the democrats;Rockefeller to the GOP .
    They donated money to Hillary because they thought that she would win. They were buying influence.

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  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    And big money is bipartisan. It doesn't care about morality, ethics or even it's own political views -
    That is not true : big money is political : big money did not donate to Trump but to Hillary,because big money supports the political ideas of Hillary .

    It was also so in the past : Harriman donated to the democrats;Rockefeller to the GOP .

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Well, if McCain runs for reelection, he won't be getting my vote...
    Of courses not, you'd have to be rational.

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  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Because politicians run to be reelected. And you need money to be reelected.

    Money is the key to winning elections. Money gets you votes. Money gets you influence.

    If those whining about RINOs want them to change, then they need to open their wallets in a big way. If not, then they shouldn't be surprised when politicians ignore them - they should have been more successful like Soros.

    The average American is meaningless. It is those at the top who have the money to make a difference that actually matter. Money wins elections, and winning elections is all that politicians care about.

    It's the American way.

    Edit: Also, I should refute the whole "center left" comment, but... meh.
    Moore won the primary,although he was outspended by Strange.And Trump won,although he was outspended by Hillary .

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  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
    When politicians are running for office, they say what the voters want to hear. Once they're elected, they do what the big money tells them to.
    And big money is bipartisan. It doesn't care about morality, ethics or even it's own political views - barring those that help support its bottom line. There are those individuals who are big ideological spenders, like Koch and Soros, but they are drops in the bucket, more useful as scarecrows and fallacies to their enemies than as an authentic representation of the mainstream.

    And even they won't throw away everything just to make a point.

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  • johns624
    replied
    When politicians are running for office, they say what the voters want to hear. Once they're elected, they do what the big money tells them to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    Graham has supported McMullin as candidate,although he had no chance to be elected, he was only candidating to prevent the official GOP candidate (= Trump ) to be elected, what would result in the election of Hillary .

    When Obama was president, the GOP officially opposed Obamacare, now when they have the opportunity to repeal Obamacare, liberal GOP senators (Collins, Murkowski, ,McCain )are supporting Obamacare ,which means that they lied in the past .And Graham defends McCain .

    As the Democrats are going,as fast and as far as they can, to the left , the GOP has no other choice to go as fast and as far as possibly,to the right .The last years the GOP has moved from the center to the center left:it should remember what happened in Germany,when the CDU/CSU also was going to the center left .If the GOP continues its current policy, it will disappear .Bipartisanship (= collaborating with the Democrats) is suicidal .

    The RINOS must choose : their electors or the money from Soros .
    Because politicians run to be reelected. And you need money to be reelected.

    Money is the key to winning elections. Money gets you votes. Money gets you influence.

    If those whining about RINOs want them to change, then they need to open their wallets in a big way. If not, then they shouldn't be surprised when politicians ignore them - they should have been more successful like Soros.

    The average American is meaningless. It is those at the top who have the money to make a difference that actually matter. Money wins elections, and winning elections is all that politicians care about.

    It's the American way.

    Edit: Also, I should refute the whole "center left" comment, but... meh.
    Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 26 Sep 17, 21:05.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    When most Republicans are RINOs, maybe one needs to adjust their measuring stick.

    "He's just another socialist - he breathes oxygen!"
    Graham has supported McMullin as candidate,although he had no chance to be elected, he was only candidating to prevent the official GOP candidate (= Trump ) to be elected, what would result in the election of Hillary .

    When Obama was president, the GOP officially opposed Obamacare, now when they have the opportunity to repeal Obamacare, liberal GOP senators (Collins, Murkowski, ,McCain )are supporting Obamacare ,which means that they lied in the past .And Graham defends McCain .

    As the Democrats are going,as fast and as far as they can, to the left , the GOP has no other choice to go as fast and as far as possibly,to the right .The last years the GOP has moved from the center to the center left:it should remember what happened in Germany,when the CDU/CSU also was going to the center left .If the GOP continues its current policy, it will disappear .Bipartisanship (= collaborating with the Democrats) is suicidal .

    The RINOS must choose : their electors or the money from Soros .

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Some of them do. And Trump doesn't care because he will still be very rich long after he was president, while nobody will remember McCain except as a whiner and a complainer.

    How much good do you think could be accomplished if Congress creatures and Senators stopped whining and got to work for America, instead of themselves. McCain, like many others, is part of the problem and not part of any solution.
    All politicians are part of the problem. That is their role: being state-sanctioned arbiters of trouble.

    There is no such thing as a good politician, just a tolerated one. The myth that any of the bloodsuckers in Washington are doing anything other than benefiting themselves has yet to die. But the people like to believe they are making a difference and that their guy, the one they voted for, is somehow different.

    That there are people who still believe that putting Obama or Trump into office would lead to some sort of broadly recognized positive "change" amuses me to no end - as much as it does the belief that their opponents would have been that much worse!

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
    You miss the point. He can't be a RINO because all the Republican (except for 9) voted for him as Speaker. That means that all of them must be RINOs, which would make the GOP nonexistent.
    No, what it would mean is that the people shouting "RINO!" have it backwards - those they call RINO actually represent the GOP, while it is those they hold up as true stalwarts who are the actual RINOs.

    If the majority of the GOP are RINOs, then that RINO ideology is in fact the true GOP ideology, and it is those opposing them who have become, in effect, the actual RINOs by opposing the mainstream.

    Leave a comment:


  • johns624
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Probably because being a RINO has nothing at all to do with his position in the line of succession, anymore than his pants size or his drivers license does. You should know that.
    You miss the point. He can't be a RINO because all the Republican (except for 9) voted for him as Speaker. That means that all of them must be RINOs, which would make the GOP nonexistent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
    Exactly. On another site I frequent, one poster called Paul Ryan a RINO. I told him that as Speaker of the House he was second in line of succession and had been voted in by his fellow Republicans and he still wouldn't concede the point.
    Probably because being a RINO has nothing at all to do with his position in the line of succession, anymore than his pants size or his drivers license does. You should know that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Trump DEMANDS loyalty. If there is a lack of loyalty apparent in the civilian world, Trump merely fires the malcreant.

    I have some bad news for you, Trumpie, old fellow, it don't work that way in the Gov't. You have to work with these people and they don't depend on you to get reelected.

    GG
    Some of them do. And Trump doesn't care because he will still be very rich long after he was president, while nobody will remember McCain except as a whiner and a complainer.

    How much good do you think could be accomplished if Congress creatures and Senators stopped whining and got to work for America, instead of themselves. McCain, like many others, is part of the problem and not part of any solution.

    Leave a comment:

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