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  • UAW want to unionize Tesla

    UAW want Democrats to use the generous government rebates as enticement towards Tesla unionization.
    It looks like the Democrats will obey but will Elon Musk resist unionization without Democrat support?


    Labor Takes Aim at Tesla in Private Letter to CA Dems
    UAW pushes lawmakers to curb green car rebates for companies that don’t 'respect workers' rights' amid face-off with Elon Musk

    Labor unions are pressuring California lawmakers to curb tax breaks on electric vehicles in an effort to punish Tesla Motors for resisting a unionization campaign.
    The California Labor Federation, an AFL-CIO affiliate and one of the state's most influential labor organizations, asked top Democrats to include budgetary language that would restrict tax breaks based on a company's labor practices in a letter obtained exclusively by the Washington Free Beacon. The September 12 letter, addressed to the chairs of the Senate and Assembly budget committees, urges lawmakers to approve AB 134 and SB 119, which would require "clean vehicle manufacturers to be certified as fair and responsible employers in order to be eligible for consumer rebates."
    "Public investments should reflect our values—companies who benefit from public dollars should follow the law and respect workers' rights," the letter says. "The State of California has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in rebates … we must consider whether public resources should support companies where workers face economic insecurity and threats to their rights."

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/labor-t...etter-ca-dems/
    "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

  • #2
    Might as well... Maybe the government will prop them up when they start to go bankrupt... After all, there is no market for battery powered cars...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      Might as well... Maybe the government will prop them up when they start to go bankrupt... After all, there is no market for battery powered cars...
      Your out of touch, both of you.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/10/b...tric-cars.html
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        Might as well... Maybe the government will prop them up when they start to go bankrupt... After all, there is no market for battery powered cars...
        It's just a matter of time before Tony Stark, I mean Elon Musk, runs out of OPM (other peoples money)...



        The more revenue Tesla generates, the more cash it burns…



        In its entire existence, Tesla has had one profitable quarter... And that was entirely due to corporate welfare (California zero emission vehicle (ZEV) credits. When Tesla sells its 200 thousandth PEV (plug in electric vehicle), its Federal tax credits will begin to phase out...



        There’s a reason that Americans buy nearly 5 Ford F-Series pickup trucks for every PEV of all makes and models. They *choose* to do so.

        Ford sold 77,895 F-series pickup trucks in June. Total PEV sales in June were just 17,182 vehicles. Wake me up when EV’s out-sell Ford F-Series pickup trucks.



        Americans simply don't want to puchase PEV's... not even in the Peoples Republic of California...
        state incentives, only 4% of car buyers in California chose electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles last year. That’s a huge problem in a state with rising greenhouse gas emissions from passenger vehicles, and with a goal to more than quadruple the number of zero-emissions vehicles on the road by 2025.

        How can the state kick-start EV sales and hit its target of 1.5 million zero-emissions vehicles? To Assemblyman Phil Ting (D-San Francisco), the answer is simple: Spend $3 billion on dramatically higher state rebates — as in, upping the state’s ante from $2,500 to $10,000 or more per vehicle.

        Under Ting’s proposal, AB 1184, the state rebate program would be redesigned to make the cost of a compact electric vehicle comparable to a similar gas-powered one.

        […]

        But there are several problems that make Ting’s current proposal a no-go. For starters, there’s the staggering $3-billion price tag, which is six times more than the state has spent on rebates since 2010. There’s talk about dipping into the cap-and-trade auction revenue, but there already are lots of proposals for how to spend that money to reduce carbon.

        More fundamentally, there’s no analysis of why Californians aren’t buying more electric cars.

        […]

        LA Times

        Could it possibly be that 96% of Californian car buyers don’t want to purchase EV’s?

        This is what it takes to force relatively free people to purchase PEV's: Charge them nearly $8/gal for gasoline and pay them $15,000 for each PEV they purchase.

        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
          No, you have no clue.

          You see it all over: the meme that "electric cars are a sales failure."
          Yet California is experiencing shortages of electric cars, with many dealers saying they've entirely sold out of plug-in electric cars.
          Some Nissan dealers in Portland, Oregon, even say the Leaf electric car is now their best-selling passenger car.
          So are electric cars irrelevant in overall sales, or hugely successful?
          The answer is: both.
          They're doing well in certain progressive areas of the country, largely invisible elsewhere.
          http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-due-to-demand

          Even your own article fails to mention what a failure the electric car has been in China

          http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...ctric_car.html

          Then there's the infrastructure to go with them.

          Here in Phoenix, the Obama administration gave Ecotality nearly $100 million to install electric car charging stations across the metro area. The company netted made a couple thousand dollars in sales. The charging stations are mostly abandoned, broken, and graffitied now.

          Ecotality Inc ECTY.O, a maker of charging stations for electric cars that won a $99.8 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy four years ago, has filed for bankruptcy protection and said it plans to auction its assets next month.
          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...98G1E720130917

          All-electric cars remain a tiny niche market for automobiles representing less than 1% of total sales. They are horribly impractical for most people and will always remain so. They didn't work when Thomas Edison tried them, and they don't work today.


          https://www.fool.com/investing/gener...on-failed.aspx

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            Might as well... Maybe the government will prop them up when they start to go bankrupt... After all, there is no market for battery powered cars...
            There's a market for battery powered vehicles, there's just absolutely no resale value. No one will buy a used battery powered vehicle because they know the battery needs replacing. A new hybrid battery pack will cost you between $1,500 to $4,500 and that's on top of the cost of the useless used car with a dead battery.
            "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

            "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

            Comment


            • #7
              In virtually the entire US, a battery powered car is nearly worthless unless it is specifically being purchased as say a daily commuter vehicle and the commute is within range of the vehicle on a single charge.
              No battery powered vehicle will go more than about 200 miles max, and most won't make 100. Recharging takes hours. It is all insanely inconvenient to worthless to most people who want the flexibility a gasoline powered car offers.
              And, as pointed out, replacement batteries are not cheap. Worse, lithium batteries do very poorly in high temperatures like in Arizona in terms of life.

              Then there's the charging stations. This is a complete shift in infrastructure and will probably end up costing a trillion plus if it were adopted nationwide, maybe more. Could you imagine pulling up to a 4 plug in station with your battery car near zero, only to find four other cars plugged in and the first one won't be leaving for 20 minutes, and it's going to take close to an hour to give your car a mostly full charge...

              So, it isn't just resale value, its the whole cycle of owing one.

              But, from a manufacturer's stand point, no resale market means more sales and greater monopoly power over the market.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                UAW want Democrats to use the generous government rebates as enticement towards Tesla unionization.
                It looks like the Democrats will obey but will Elon Musk resist unionization without Democrat support?
                I'm curious...exactly how is Tesla abusing the workers' rights?
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  I'm curious...exactly how is Tesla abusing the workers' rights?
                  All the union cares about is dues... Well that and trying to corral the workers into voting Democrat...

                  Of course, with the massive stream of red ink Tesla is bleeding, being unionized will only make that rise exponentially, likely hastening Tesla's demise.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    I'm curious...exactly how is Tesla abusing the workers' rights?
                    By not supporting and allowing unionization they are apparently abusing the right of the employees who want to join the union.
                    "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                      By not supporting and allowing unionization they are apparently abusing the right of the employees who want to join the union.
                      Nothing is stopping the employee from joining the union. That is, if the union isn't one of those that only lets employees in union businesses join and has rules against employment outside of union control.
                      If the company is non-union all that means is the employee isn't getting any bargaining from the union. He'd still be getting any other benefits however meager those might be...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The world's entire green energy industry is completely reliant on tax dollars and will be for the foreseeable future.

                        The world's best electric car company, Tesla, selling the best electric cars would fold almost instantly if subsidies were removed. The model S is a great car but not a competitive automotive product for the masses.

                        China can make all the claims it wants about going to electric drive. It's not going to make the demand for electric cars reach levels that could sustain a subsidy free Tesla on the open market. They'll soon realise the costs involved and reverse course.

                        Right now the electric car is a 'niche' market. The electricity grids of even the most developed nations are incapable of supplying the energy needs of anything more than a 'niche' electric automotive fleet. There will never ever be a sustained surge in the demand for electric cars because it will bring with it a huge energy infrastructure investment cost that will make governments panic.

                        Because Tesla relies on the government for its existence it will be only a matter of time before politicians start to try and steer the business. I'm not sure whether Elon will yield to their suggestions or get out of the car game to focus on playing rockets. Letting the union in the door will simply add to the costs making Tesla more depended on government money. And that's how the story of America's first nationalised electric car company started...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jazsa View Post
                          The world's entire green energy industry is completely reliant on tax dollars and will be for the foreseeable future.

                          The world's best electric car company, Tesla, selling the best electric cars would fold almost instantly if subsidies were removed. The model S is a great car but not a competitive automotive product for the masses.

                          China can make all the claims it wants about going to electric drive. It's not going to make the demand for electric cars reach levels that could sustain a subsidy free Tesla on the open market. They'll soon realise the costs involved and reverse course.

                          Right now the electric car is a 'niche' market. The electricity grids of even the most developed nations are incapable of supplying the energy needs of anything more than a 'niche' electric automotive fleet. There will never ever be a sustained surge in the demand for electric cars because it will bring with it a huge energy infrastructure investment cost that will make governments panic.

                          Because Tesla relies on the government for its existence it will be only a matter of time before politicians start to try and steer the business. I'm not sure whether Elon will yield to their suggestions or get out of the car game to focus on playing rockets. Letting the union in the door will simply add to the costs making Tesla more depended on government money. And that's how the story of America's first nationalised electric car company started...
                          The question is: When Telsa's Federal tax credits begin to expire next year, will either the Federal or California State government bail them out?

                          I do agree, Tesla is, by far, the highest quality EV on the market... and the brand name has significant value. When Musk runs out of OPM and government handouts, he will probably find a merger partner with deep pockets.

                          The Model 3 will make or break Tesla. They either start generating free cash flow by 2019-2020, or they will be in dire need of "strategic alternatives."
                          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jazsa View Post
                            The world's entire green energy industry is completely reliant on tax dollars and will be for the foreseeable future.

                            The world's best electric car company, Tesla, selling the best electric cars would fold almost instantly if subsidies were removed. The model S is a great car but not a competitive automotive product for the masses.

                            China can make all the claims it wants about going to electric drive. It's not going to make the demand for electric cars reach levels that could sustain a subsidy free Tesla on the open market. They'll soon realise the costs involved and reverse course.

                            Right now the electric car is a 'niche' market. The electricity grids of even the most developed nations are incapable of supplying the energy needs of anything more than a 'niche' electric automotive fleet. There will never ever be a sustained surge in the demand for electric cars because it will bring with it a huge energy infrastructure investment cost that will make governments panic.

                            Because Tesla relies on the government for its existence it will be only a matter of time before politicians start to try and steer the business. I'm not sure whether Elon will yield to their suggestions or get out of the car game to focus on playing rockets. Letting the union in the door will simply add to the costs making Tesla more depended on government money. And that's how the story of America's first nationalised electric car company started...
                            I recently read that Tesla have not sold many vehicles in Australia to date. There are only approx 600 Teslas in all of Australia. Of that 600, only 10 are Tesla Roadsters. The Northern Territory only have 1 lone Model S.

                            The Australian government have been installing supercharger stations across the country throughout 2016/2017. Maybe Tesla sales picks up in 2018. I wonder what Tesla did for Australia to have all those charging stations installed.
                            Last edited by Persephone; 17 Sep 17, 17:54.
                            "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                            "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              BTW...there are many countries whose government offer some sort of financial assistance for buying Tesla.


                              Government incentives for plug-in electric vehicles
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govern...ctric_vehicles
                              "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                              "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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