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  • Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
    Okay. What would you do to engage the moderates? Could I get some elaboration?

    Make new offer by redrawing maps of the West Bank with SPECIFIC proposals to dismantle specific settlements by a SPECIFIC time (as a starting point of negotiation). The general objective is to have unified areas under the control of the Palestinian authority in the West Bank and to let them have access to key resources in areas such as the rich Jordan valley and its river in proportion to their numbers. It does not make sense to have 400,000 settlers exploit most of the Jordan river resources for their swimming pools while millions of Palestinians get the short end of the stick.

    On the other hand, the Palestinians in the West Bank must accept to distant themselves from the leadership in Gaza at least as long as the latter is the main ground of an extremist leadership and stop pursuing any demands related to that area . The Palestinians must also accept restrictions in their armaments and some form of a deep demilitarized zone. And of course, the development of the negotiations will depend on " West Bank terrorist indicators" and metrics of performance of the West Bank leadership. Do not ask me details about these. This will actually be the first issue that has to be negotiated before anything else: Still, the key principle is that isolated cases will not be enough to condemn the Palestinian leadership and freeze the negotiation process. On the other hand, actions such as the ones we have seen in the recent past with dozens of mortars fired from the occupied territories will definitely reverse the process towards the previous status quo
    The expectations will fall somewhere between these two extremes at which point claims of ignorance or inability to make arrests and confiscate equipment will not be accepted.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pamak View Post
      You mean that you are not aware of the Balfour Declaration?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration



      And this was before even Hitler came to power!
      JTA : 2 june 1977:

      Behind the Headlines:Pro-Arab Bias in British Foreign Policy


      "Steps by PM Callaghan to check the traditional pro-Arab bias of the Foreign Office are revealed in a book published here today ."

      Title of the book : The Diplomats (by Geoffrey Moorhouse )





      It is a well-known fact that the FO is pro-Arab and has not much sympathy for Israel .

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
        JTA : 2 june 1977:

        Behind the Headlines:Pro-Arab Bias in British Foreign Policy


        "Steps by PM Callaghan to check the traditional pro-Arab bias of the Foreign Office are revealed in a book published here today ."

        Title of the book : The Diplomats (by Geoffrey Moorhouse )





        It is a well-known fact that the FO is pro-Arab and has not much sympathy for Israel .
        I gave you a primary source document from the British government itself. Yu gave me a title of a book. I can find authors claim whatever you want about any issue. The point is if their view matches historical artifacts and facts. And when you have things like the Balfour Declaration which CLEARLY talks about the formation of a Jewish State in an area in which according to the BRITISH demographic data the Jews were about as many as the Christians (see table below), and when you have a collaboration of Israel with Britain during the Suez War, I will go with these facts. If you, or the author you mentions has any other facts to compare them to mine, we can discuss it...

        Meanwhile, here is again the demographic situation in 1922, shortly after the Balfour Declaration. Compare the number of Jews to the number of Christians , and see how both are far lower than the number of the local Muslim population in Table 2 below. And it was under these demographic conditions when the British saw a right of European Jews to Palestine.



        And the fact the vast majority of the Israelis were Europeans can be determined by the type of politicians they chose to lead them. Almost all their prime minsters in the first 3 decades, were from Poland or Soviet Union . There were not many prominent Jews from any area in or close to Palestine which could compete against foreign born Jewish politicians because the vast majority of the Israeli voters themselves were European immigrants who did not have close affiliation with Palestine Jews !
        Last edited by pamak; 23 Sep 17, 02:55.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

        Comment


        • The Balfour declaration was NOT about a Jewish state .

          Comment


          • It is a historical fact (that you are denying historical facts does not make them disappearing) that the FO is pro- Arab :

            I see 2 main reasons :

            1) Britain had (still has ) interests in the Arab countries and no interests in Israel

            2) Those working at the FO have studied at Oxbridge which is the breeding ground of the liberal,anti-Semitic British elite,as Harvard is for the US .

            Comment


            • It is a historical fact (that you are denying historical facts does not make them disappearing) that the FO is pro- Arab :

              I see 2 main reasons :

              1) Britain had (still has ) interests in the Arab countries and no interests in Israel

              2) Those working at the FO have studied at Oxbridge which is the breeding ground of the liberal,anti-Semitic British elite,as Harvard is for the US .

              Comment


              • On april 20 1939 Chamberlain told the cabinet about the Palestinian problem :" If we must offend one side,let's offend the Jews rather than the Arabs " .

                And it goes further than the FO : in 2011 the UK gave the Palestinians 86 million .

                It goes that far that Britain is capitulating for the Muslim lobby in the UK and is doing nothing to prevent the Islamisation of the country : the British police has become a Muslim relief organisation .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                  I prefer to see evidence and facts instead of accepting unsupported claims. The British were calling the place "Palestine." The map of the UN about the partition of PALESTINE had INTERNATIONAL BORDERS between PALESTINE, Egypt and Jordan. This was way before any Israeli or Jordanian or Egyptian political or military actions.
                  I had to respond : For your consumption.. If thier belief was go enough for them then...Then its good enough for me now...Nuff said.



                  "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing more than southern Syria" Ahmed Shukeiry, head of the PLO, to UN Security Council, May 31, 1956

                  "... Palestine is not only a part of our Arab homeland, but a basic part of southern Syria." Syrian President Hafez Assad, Radio Damascus, March 8. 1974

                  "Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only practical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel ..." Zuheir Muhsin, Head of the Military Department and Executive Council, PLO, Trouw, March 1977

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                    The Balfour declaration was NOT about a Jewish state .
                    If you want to rewrite history, feel free to do so.


                    I prefer to see primary sources




                    I see terms like "Zionist aspirations" and "national home"

                    It is 100% clear that this is about creating a Jewish state!
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                      It is a historical fact (that you are denying historical facts does not make them disappearing) that the FO is pro- Arab :

                      I see 2 main reasons :

                      1) Britain had (still has ) interests in the Arab countries and no interests in Israel

                      2) Those working at the FO have studied at Oxbridge which is the breeding ground of the liberal,anti-Semitic British elite,as Harvard is for the US .
                      Again, I give you original documents, such as the Balfour Declaration and facts like the British collaboration with Israel during the Suez war. which show actual British policies. You just give arguments you make-up. Anybody can argue about whatever he wants to believe.
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                        On april 20 1939 Chamberlain told the cabinet about the Palestinian problem :" If we must offend one side,let's offend the Jews rather than the Arabs " .

                        And it goes further than the FO : in 2011 the UK gave the Palestinians 86 million .

                        It goes that far that Britain is capitulating for the Muslim lobby in the UK and is doing nothing to prevent the Islamisation of the country : the British police has become a Muslim relief organisation .
                        On April 1939, of course they did not want to offend the vast majority of people in Palestine. Of course, up until that time, they did not have a problem to let the Jewish immigrants completely alter the demographics in Palestine as my table in the previous post shows! Also, the British did not offend the Palestinians during the war. Of course, AFTER the war, nobody had any problem with offending them.

                        The figures given for the distribution of the settled population in the two proposed States, as estimated on the basis of official figures up to the end of 1946, are approximately as follows:

                        ..................................Jews............ ............Arabs and others.................total

                        The Jewish State.......498,000......................407,000.. ...................905,000
                        The Arab State ........10,000.........................725,000....................735,000
                        City of Jerusalem...........100,000......................1 05,000....................205,000
                        You cannot have a more shameful and insulting gerrymandering !

                        And this was even after 3 decades of changing demographics by letting European Jewish immigrants settling on Palestine...

                        As for the rest, let's not make comparisons about the double standards of letting settlements grow without taking punitive actions while following different standards with Hamas' actions. And let's not compare the power of Jewish and Arab lobby in the UK! Perhaps, in a fee decades this may change considering the growth of the Muslim population. But it is ridiculous to even argue that "Those working at the FO have studied at Oxbridge which is the breeding ground of the liberal,anti-Semitic British elite,as Harvard is for the US ." Do you even know what the percentage of Jewish professors is in such higher Institutions? Are these professors anti-Semitic too?
                        But the thing is actually even deeper than that, because even anti Semites were SUPPORTING a Jewish State in Palestine EXACTLY because they wanted to get rid of Jews!
                        Last edited by pamak; 23 Sep 17, 14:39.
                        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                          If you want to rewrite history, feel free to do so.


                          I prefer to see primary sources




                          I see terms like "Zionist aspirations" and "national home"

                          It is 100% clear that this is about creating a Jewish state!
                          It is 100 % clear that national home is not a state,otherwise Balfour would have written : state .
                          Last edited by ljadw; 23 Sep 17, 14:46.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                            It is 100 % clear that national home is not a state,otherwise Balfour would have written : stqate .
                            BS!

                            The phrase " Zionist aspirations" and "national home" mentioned in the document makes it 100% clear that this document expressed a British support for creating a Jewish state in Palestine at a time when the vast majority of the population there were not Jews !

                            And no, diplomatic language is not so direct as you try to argue, especially when it expresses desires that may **** off the vast majority of a native population.
                            Last edited by pamak; 23 Sep 17, 14:52.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • Irrelevant : the cabinet said : national home , not state .

                              About Harvard : everyone in the US knows that Harvard,as the UCLA, is swarming with anti-semites and defenders of ISIS .

                              About Oxbridge :

                              The Spectator of 06/ 11/2016 : "the troubling truth is that anti-semitism in Britain is alive and well ."

                              And with Corbyn, the situation will only worse .

                              The Guardian (18/02/2016):"It's time we acknowledged that Oxford's student left is institutionally antisemitic ".

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                                BS!

                                The phrase " Zionist aspirations" and "national home" mentioned in the document makes it 100% clear that this document expressed a British support for creating a Jewish state in Palestine at a time when the vast majority of the population there were not Jews !

                                And no, diplomatic language is not so direct as you try to argue, especially when it expresses desires that may **** off the vast majority of a native population.
                                This native population were invaders who had expelled the inhabitants and who refused to cohabite with the Jews .

                                Comment

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