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  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    You need new glasses ,your present glasses are biased : Pamak denied flatly the existence of pogroms in the Arab world : he was critical of only one side .
    I denied flatly your claim that the Jews in the ME lost billions of property because they left as a result of confiscations and pogroms. This is pure propaganda. The only people who lost billions of dollars of their property as a result of the ME violence were the Palestinians. This cannot be equated to the sporadic cases of violence which DID exist and DID cost the lives of some Jews and Arabs who fell victims of the other sides's extremists. The Jews who left the ME to go to Israel or to the US did the same thing the Greeks did when they left the ME. They sold their property and left! This is wayyyyyyyy different from the situation of the Palestinian refugees who really LOST their property!

    Here is my post with your preposterous claims which I flatly denied while I acknowledged that there were cases of violence against both Arabs and Jews!

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=106
    Last edited by pamak; 21 Sep 17, 13:54.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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    • Originally posted by pamak View Post
      I denied flatly your claim that the Jews in the ME lost billions of property because they left as a result of confiscations and pogroms. This is pure propaganda. The only people who lost billions of dollars of their property as a result of the ME violence were the Palestinians. This cannot be equated to the sporadic cases of violence which DID exist and DID cost the lives of some Jews and Arabs who fell victims of the other sides's extremists. The Jews who left the ME to go to Israel or to the US did the same thing the Greeks did when they left the ME. They sold their property and left! This is wayyyyyyyy different from the situation of the Palestinian refugees who really LOST their property!

      Here is my post with your preposterous claims which I flatly denied while I acknowledged that there were cases of violence against both Arabs and Jews!

      http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=106
      Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

      http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...arab-countries
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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      • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
        Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...arab-countries
        The Jewish library can call them Jewish refugees, but they were actually Jewish immigrants! It is just that Israelis want to bury the issue of the Palestinian refugees who really lost billions of property in Palestine by equating them to Jews who came to Israel from the ME.

        The whole argument is ridiculous. There is no comparison of the circumstances. And again, the fact that there were indeed cases of violence in the ME by extremists during periods of tension is not disputed. This does not mean that the Jewish property was confiscated or that the Jews were kicked out. The case at that time has some similarities with the case of sporadic violence you see today in the ME against the Christians when during tensions some of them fall victims of extremists and when their churches are burnt . This does not mean that one has grounds to use such cases of violence to argue that today the Christian property is confiscated and billions of dollars are lost as a result of Islamic extremism or that the Christians are kicked out of the ME.
        Last edited by pamak; 21 Sep 17, 15:39.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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          • Originally posted by pamak View Post
            I denied flatly your claim that the Jews in the ME lost billions of property because they left as a result of confiscations and pogroms. This is pure propaganda. The only people who lost billions of dollars of their property as a result of the ME violence were the Palestinians. This cannot be equated to the sporadic cases of violence which DID exist and DID cost the lives of some Jews and Arabs who fell victims of the other sides's extremists. The Jews who left the ME to go to Israel or to the US did the same thing the Greeks did when they left the ME. They sold their property and left! This is wayyyyyyyy different from the situation of the Palestinian refugees who really LOST their property!

            Here is my post with your preposterous claims which I flatly denied while I acknowledged that there were cases of violence against both Arabs and Jews!

            http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=106
            in posts 102 and 106 you denied the existence of pogroms in the Arab counyties.Everyone knows that such pogroms existed . Now such pogroms will happen in Europe and the US . But there have been no pogroms against the Arabs .

            There were pogroms in the Arab countries already in the 19th century, and they continued even after the existence of Israel . The existence of Israel is not the cause for these pogroms : the cause is the irrational hatred of the Muslims for every Jew on the world .

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            • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
              in posts 102 and 106 you denied the existence of pogroms in the Arab counyties.Everyone knows that such pogroms existed . Now such pogroms will happen in Europe and the US . But there have been no pogroms against the Arabs .

              There were pogroms in the Arab countries already in the 19th century, and they continued even after the existence of Israel . The existence of Israel is not the cause for these pogroms : the cause is the irrational hatred of the Muslims for every Jew on the world .
              I denied the existence of double standards in characterizing pogroms the cases of sporadic violence against the Jews in the ME but not seeing the similar cases of sporadic violence against the Palestinians in the areas which were to become Israel. If you do not think there were pogroms against the Palestinians in 1947 then you should not try to ague that there were pogroms against the Jews in the ME.

              I also denied the comparison of the cases of the Palestinian refugees who DID lost billions of their property in Israel to the case of Jewish immigrants to Israel from the Middle East who did not see their property being confiscated and who did exactly the same thing Christian Greeks did. They SOLD their property and left the ME to go to other countries which offered better economic conditions, or to go to Israel (in the case of the Jewish immigrants from the ME) because it was fulfilling national sentiments.

              As for the 19th century, if you want to talk about pogroms, you should better talk about the Russian and Polish ones.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...century_Poland

              Pogroms[edit]
              The assassination prompted a large-scale wave of anti-Jewish riots, called pogroms throughout 1881-1884. In the 1881 outbreak, pogroms also occurred in Russia, in a riot in Warsaw twelve Jews were killed, many others were wounded, and women were raped[citation needed] while over two million rubles worth of property was destroyed. The new czar, Alexander III, blamed the Jews for the riots and issued a series of harsh restrictions on Jewish movements, but large numbers of pogroms continued until 1884, with at least tacit government approval. The pogroms proved a turning point in the history of the Jews in Poland, and throughout the world. They prompted a great flood of Jewish immigration to the United States, with almost two million Jews leaving the Pale by the late 1920s, and the pogroms set the stage for Zionism.

              An even bloodier wave of pogroms broke out from 19031906, including the Kishinev pogrom (April 1903), the Odessa pogrom (October 1905), the Kiev pogrom (October 1905), and the Białystok pogrom (April 1906). Hundreds of Jews were killed and many more wounded.
              Last edited by pamak; 21 Sep 17, 15:01.
              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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              • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                There is no comparison of the circumstances.


                This does not mean that one has grounds to argue that today Christian property is confiscated and billions of dollars are lost as a result of Islamic extremism or that the Christians are kicked out...
                1) I see : the good Muslims and the bad Jews .

                2) Everyone knows that now the Christians are suffering the fate of the Jews .Ethnic cleansing .

                Christians are persecuting in all countries where Muslims are dominating .

                This year more than 80 Copts have been murdered in Egypt .

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                • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                  I told you why they left,
                  You did NOT : you invented excuses for the Muslim criminals .

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                  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                    1) I see : the good Muslims and the bad Jews .

                    2) Everyone knows that now the Christians are suffering the fate of the Jews .Ethnic cleansing .

                    Christians are persecuting in all countries where Muslims are dominating .

                    This year more than 80 Copts have been murdered in Egypt .
                    1. It is not good Muslims and bad Jews.
                    It is billions of dollars lost on the one side when people were forced to become refugees while on the other side people did not experience this type of calamity

                    2. You should read again the links about the 19th century pogroms in Russia and Poland which I offered in the previous post
                    Notice also that the Greeks ARE Christians, and yes, there have been times when they became targets of extremist Muslims. The difference though is that such events do not create a syndrome of perpetual victim hood (at least in modern Greece). We have been slaughtering and getting slaughtered by Muslims for centuries, way before the Jews could even contemplate the idea of creating a Jewish State in the Middle East.
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                      You did NOT : you invented excuses for the Muslim criminals .
                      I never tried to excuse any Muslim criminal. I just confront YOUR excuses for the fate and the lost property of millions of Palestinian refugees. And I just bring relative information to show that the facts do not support such excuses...
                      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by pamak View Post
                        "Justified in their concerns" is a different issue from justified in their occupation and expansion at the expense of the native population in West Bank.

                        The fact that the negotiations for a Palestinian state will include measures to address Israeli security concerns is not disputed. This can include anything from demilitarized zones to restrictions on the size and equipment of the Palestinian army to the monitoring of Palestinian-Jordanian borders, etc. Also, the fact that Israel today is the only nuclear power in the area means that we cannot see the Israeli Jews as being the modern version of the weak and unprotected German Jews in 1939 or even as the modern version of the Israeli Jews in 1948.
                        The occupation is largely tactical. Lots of occupied territory wouldn't be occupied but for Palestinian/Arab belligerence. Thus they are the same issue. One could say if you don't like losing territory, quit provoking Israel.
                        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                        • Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                          The occupation is largely tactical. Lots of occupied territory wouldn't be occupied but for Palestinian/Arab belligerence. Thus they are the same issue. One could say if you don't like losing territory, quit provoking Israel.

                          I disagree...

                          First, the occupation in West Bank took place during the 1967 war in which Israel attacked Egypt and Jordan. And the land grab continues up until today.

                          Second, even if we accept the position that the attack was a justified "preemptive one" as a result of the Egyptian provocations, the Palestinians in the occupied territories cannot be held politically responsible for the Egyptian or Jordanian decisions in 1967.


                          Third, tactical issues are close related to the type of military equipment you have. When you are the only nuclear power in the area, it is hard to argue that you need to occupy the West Bank because this is vital for your national security. It is also hard to argue that this occupation is necessary from a military point of view if the negotiations about a Palestinian state in the occupied territories includes safety provisions, such as, demilitarized zones or arms restrictions. The Israelis were able to defend themselves (and attack twice during the Suez war and the 1967 Six Day war) when the military balance was way worse against them and at the time when they did not have nuclear weapons.


                          Fourth, your phrase "Lots of occupied territory wouldn't be occupied but for Palestinian/Arab belligerence" can be also stated in the form of "lots of Palestinian/Arab belligerence would not take place but for the Israeli occupation." See how Egypt's "belligerence" receded after they got back Sinai. In other words, such view of things lead to nowhere and just create excuses for the continuation of the occupation and the belligerence.
                          Last edited by pamak; 21 Sep 17, 19:53.
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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                          • Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                            Really, show us the proof of this assertion...

                            Your white sheets are showing. Why not just crawl back to stormfront and under your rock...

                            Sorry folks, I just hate racist neo-nazis with a passion.
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                            Thank you neo-Nazi~Stormfront~KKK .
                            Bwaha, G David Bock, and all others:

                            Please address the post, and and not the poster.

                            Derogatory personal remarks directed at any member or group of members are not acceptable. You have already been previously warned and sanctioned. Please do not do it again, as you would much rather deal with me than Bad Wolf.

                            Calling or insinuating any member or group of members as
                            KKK, Neo-Nazi, White Supremacist, or ANYTHING similar that has been generally accepted as hate-groups will not be tolerated by ACG Staff. Any future violations will be an banning offense.

                            ACG Staff
                            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                            Prayers.

                            BoRG

                            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                            • A voice to reason, shall we not speak? Shall we not oppose neos?

                              Really.
                              Credo quia absurdum.


                              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                              • The mass facepalm said it all...

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