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Should Confederate Monuments be taken down?

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  • Should Confederate Monuments be taken down?

    Should they, why or why not?

    I think no, because I'm a history buff and I appreciate getting to see these monuments when I visit historical sites or Southern towns. I think everyone who reads history has a general apprecation for these things, and I bet most of the people taking them down have never read a book on the Civil War, or any war for that matter.

    Some interesting analogies:

    -The Egyptians aren't taking down the pyramids, even though the Pharoahs were oppresive

    -The French aren't taking down the Arc de Triomphe

    -The Russians aren't taking down the Winter Palace
    33
    Yes
    18.18%
    6
    No
    81.82%
    27
    "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

    "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

  • #2
    In most cases, no. They should stand. They are a reminder of a very rough and difficult period of our history. They serve as public reminders not only of the time they represent, but also of the people that erected them.

    Now, that said, I think some should be removed. For example: This one of Nathan Bedford Forrest in Nashville TN:



    Why? Because Forrest was a slave owner (minor) and major slave trader (major), unapologetic racist, a founder / early member of the KKK, and pretty much an all-around vulgar human being.

    I don't think there's much reason to have a statue of him commemorating anything about him.

    That's one example.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think it's as simple as a yes or no. Is it, yes and they're being moved to a museum where history buffs can still appreciate them, or yes they're being removed and destroyed or put out of sight. Two entirely different situations with the latter being unacceptable.

      I think a more accurate comparison would be if Germany still had Nazi monuments.

      Ideally I think they should be put in museums, but as I said before it's not a fight worth fighting right now. Just leave them be, taking down monuments isn't going to change anything.
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

      Comment


      • #4
        Up to the owner. If that is a city or county then that is what we pay the Elected leaders for. Make a decision, even if that decision is to hold a vote etc.
        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
        “To talk of many things:
        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
        Of cabbages—and kings—
        And why the sea is boiling hot—
        And whether pigs have wings.”
        ― Lewis Carroll

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        • #5
          In a thousand years will anyone care? What they may care about is the value of liberty and justice that the Union was formulated on.

          I answered yes because I don't see it as an important issue and regardless of their original meaning they have come to symbolize the things that the enlightenment put aside. Primarily birthright and the divine right of some to control others.

          That said they should not be removed under the threats made by cultural Marxists who will simply move on to dismantling the rest of western civilization. The media minorities and the "liberals" are simply useful idiots in this context.
          We hunt the hunters

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          • #6
            I'm not sure which way to jump here...

            One the one hand, the equivalent of Americans Taliban is the driving force behind this, and for similar reasons; pure hate.
            I am inclined to be opposed to that.
            However....

            I have noticed that many of those statues face the south... meaning that the horse's rump faces North.
            Cute, I suppose, but that leaves me out of it in the here & now.
            Also, that statue to Lee near UVA was set up in 1957. Not exactly an artifact-level dating... but it was at the height of Southern resistance to de-segregation.

            So, count me out, I'm neutral. You Rebs are on your own with this one.
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              Up to the owner. If that is a city or county then that is what we pay the Elected leaders for. Make a decision, even if that decision is to hold a vote etc.
              Correct answer.

              Until all this BS came up I have given little thought to the subject. They were just part of every day America to me and remain so.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                Correct answer.

                Until all this BS came up I have given little thought to the subject. They were just part of every day America to me and remain so.
                +1, can't rep you, must spread around.
                Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                • #9
                  After listening to some African Americans say that slavery in this country was their Holocaust the very least one can do is be open to a conversation about taking down the CSA statues. I am reminded of anti Italian or anti Irish parts of history when thinking of how African Americans react to the bigoted part of American history whether pre civil war slavery or civil war slavery but at the least the latter saw many white and black Americans fight to end slavery. It is very unfortunate that a part of American history includes so called race based slavery..this is unlike that of the Outremer for example, the Persian or Roman Empire all of which can be proven to not have a race based system.

                  As one who admire societies that are true to freedom like the ones that understand civil marriage is a human right...many countries of today are very inhumane in not allowing civil marriage or interfaith marriage never mind that the great empires had interfaith marriage. There are many groups in the world who may argue against the CSA, but they dont have much of an argument considering their policies are similar to that of the CSA. I wonder what the CSA Protestant white man would think of his daughter marrying a black Christian man or a white Catholic man?

                  I dont know what I feel about taking down CSA statues at this point. I only felt a little bad upon seeing a large group of white and black Americans recently knock down a CSA statue. I do understand that the well mannered relatives of Thomas Jackson, Jefferson Davis, and Robert E Lee are saying if folks are offended then take the CSA statues down and move them to a museum. In addition we all saw the recent pictures of the large group of our fellow Americans knocking down the CSA statue one could say perhaps this was illegal yet morally correct. I could imagine some modern day Americans who admire the CSA were sad when they saw the one CSA statue get knocked down illegally.. But let me ask considering all the unique sights we have already seen at UVA....what if ten fully armored men riding on armored horseback rode in at night time and destroyed a random CSA statue somewhere in the USA? Perhaps an inspiring music video could be made from such an action, and the CSA statue would be replaced with a statue of Richard I or a Roman Emperor something that all peoples could admire.

                  We saw a number of images from the UVA event. They were meant to be inspirational, the CSA and Third Reich folks had their slogans and their historic figures to look up to..the counter protest side included a far more diverse side with many black and white Americans who admire Washington and Lincoln...along with some folks who admired the Soviet Union...And I was reminded of WW2 and clearly the alt right folks side with the Third Reich where as the counter protesters although far more diverse could still be viewed as having an allied mentality.
                  Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                  Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                  George S Patton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry, Stonewall, but I must disagree. Catering to the hateful merely creates more hate. Slavery is long dead and gone, and it's time for blacks to recognize that fact, become Americans like the rest of us and move on.

                    I'm an Irish descendant from the darkest days of Irish history, and I'm not going around demanding anything from the government because of past I was not a part of, or moaning about injuries and injustices I did not sustain.

                    Blacks seem to feel a constant, desperate need to be seen as victims, even when they aren't. Especially when they aren't.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      [FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]Sorry, Stonewall, but I must disagree. Catering to the hateful merely creates more hate. Slavery is long dead and gone, and it's time for blacks to recognize that fact, become Americans like the rest of us and move on.
                      As a wise man once said, "You first."

                      Do you think the average citizen of color is making up all the incidents of bigotry they encounter each and every day?

                      And what exactly is the process for becoming an American "like the rest of us?" It's not enough that they are actually citizens? Maybe if they were all treated like "the rest of us," it would help?

                      But then, we have a current POTUS who specifically called out a judge who ruled against him because he was a "MEXICAN." A lot of people agreed with the Chump on that one. Did you? It turns out, of course, that the judge was was an American "like the rest of us." But that didn't stop the predator in chief from treating him like "something else."

                      Try to get that. A candidate for The office of PRESIDENT of the United Friggin' States of America spews racist commentary at an American citizen who is just trying to do his job "like the rest of us," and now that candidate IS the current POTUS. And you demand that "blacks" just "move on."

                      You first, pal, you first.
                      "I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. You can do anything... Grab them by the [redacted]. You can do anything."
                      -The President of the United States of America.

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                      • #12
                        If the local community want them gone, then yes. If not, then no.

                        They are not beholden to preserve statues forever just because removing them would offend someone. Likewise, there is no demand that they must take them down if they themselves like keeping them up.

                        This is strictly a local issue being used for political purposes. If these were just old flower gardens, the debate on either side would be muted and ignored by damn near everyone.

                        The people politicizing thus are those taking a stand on their removal, to either side. Leave it to the local communities to manage their own affairs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Sorry, Stonewall, but I must disagree. Catering to the hateful merely creates more hate. Slavery is long dead and gone, and it's time for blacks to recognize that fact, become Americans like the rest of us and move on.
                          Tell that to the people still flying the wrong flag.

                          I'm an Irish descendant from the darkest days of Irish history, and I'm not going around demanding anything from the government because of past I was not a part of, or moaning about injuries and injustices I did not sustain.

                          Blacks seem to feel a constant, desperate need to be seen as victims, even when they aren't. Especially when they aren't
                          Or how everything is anti semitic to jews. Most blacks don't even care about the monuments.
                          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                          • #14

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                            • #15


                              Okay. One more.

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