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Is it time to move remaining confederate monuments into an existing or new museum

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  • Is it time to move remaining confederate monuments into an existing or new museum

    Is it time to simply move remaining confederate monuments into an existing or new museum?

    Err look this is getting ridiculous.
    Yes, Iím not an American and of course I can be told (and Iím sure I will be!) that itís none of my business.
    However surely itís time that the steps begin to be taken to quietly and quickly move statues of confederate figures that are on open-air display into a museum or museums?
    There are existing Confederacy / ACW-themed museums are there not.

    The controversy surrounding them can also by extension, also move to the museum where both sides of the argument can be presented in attendant explanatory panels, interactive displays.
    Donít laugh. It could work and the whole atmosphere of hysteria be calmed down if itís done properly.

    Debate (even venting if need be) in a calmer, rational (and yes one can Ďventí rationally - not all rants are delusional) and Iím sure robust fashion in a proper atmospheric.
    You can have school history discussion groups, community organisation tours, televised presentations by assorted Ďexpertsí etc., etc..

    The way things are theyíre now just a symbol of division and target of combativeness which both sides can focus on, with as can been seen, often violent consequences.

    Now donít get me wrong I donít have the remotest time or support for the Ďlost causeí and the ridiculous smokescreen about the ACW being about íStates Rightsí.
    The Confederacy and the slavery system which underpinned it was a loathsome institution and the finest thing the US armed services ever did on their own (as opposed to helping the allies defeat Nazism) was to destroy the Confederacy and what it represented.
    The continued existence of such an entity on the North American continent does not bear thinking about.

    However, I do not agree with the destruction of historical monuments, even of figures of controversy and divisiveness. Itís a reflex action with undertones of destruction of religious monuments by extremist in other parts of the world.
    Anyway be interested in your input

    Regards
    lodestar

  • #2
    Those are decisions to be taken by their owners. In those cases where the owners are private parties, no state authority has say. Where the owner is a municipal or county agency, the ultimate authority rests with the local voters: they have the power to determine a particular attraction's fate, either indirectly through their legislators, or directly through some kind of ballot initiative. Depending upon local circumstances, some of those debates might get rather heated, but I'd much rather the locals address these issues through their own political institutions than some Federal body try to impose a one-size-fits-all solution from on-high. That will be guaranteed to dissatisfy everybody.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

    Comment


    • #3
      It would be smarter to raise monuments to Union soldiers. There used to be a lot of them during the war. In many places the stone/brick chimneys were still there after the merry pranksters took away all the valuables and burnt the houses.

      If you really want to stir the pot, build statues to Union soldiers that "saved the Republic". Then make sure it is a Freed Man carrying the rifle.

      People sometimes do not pay attention to the monuments in some areas that honor Unionist victims. If Confederate monuments go, these should as well.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • #4
        I would add to Slick's post, that "activists" from both sides coming from the far corners of the country, in this case, should be ignored. Their personal preferences are ones they can impose on their local governments and home locations. There's no reason some Leftist from California, or Rightist from Vermont, should be sticking their nose into some town in Mississippi's business about what statues should or shouldn't be on public display.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
          It would be smarter to raise monuments to Union soldiers. There used to be a lot of them during the war. In many places the stone/brick chimneys were still there after the merry pranksters took away all the valuables and burnt the houses.

          If you really want to stir the pot, build statues to Union soldiers that "saved the Republic". Then make sure it is a Freed Man carrying the rifle.

          People sometimes do not pay attention to the monuments in some areas that honor Unionist victims. If Confederate monuments go, these should as well.

          Pruitt
          Perhaps you Southern folk need more monuments to your brethren who did the right thing -- like Virginia native George "Rock of Chickamauga" Thomas, and Tennessee native David "Damn the Torpedoes, Full Speed Ahead" Farragut. Those are Southerners you can be proud of.
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • #6
            I would think that the majority of Southerners in the Confederate army were not politically driven. They were just simple folk. Most would not have owned slaves and would have been politically naive. That led to them being easily persuaded to believe what their "fellow southerners" told them as being truthful.

            We see this happening today with sheeple being told politically driven drivel by the media and them taking it in hook, line and sinker. I imagine it was no different then except of course for the way in which the drivel was dispensed.

            I am not making excuses nor supporting the KKK, neo-nazis or any radical group on any side.

            ďUnthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.Ē -- Albert Einstein

            The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

            Comment


            • #7
              You can add John Gibbon to that list.
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                Perhaps we can also do what Thomas's sisters did with his picture? Turn it to face the wall? There are lots of people they can choose to honor. Is the Grand Army of the Republic still running up North? It is the Daughters of the Confederacy that usually raised money for these monuments.

                Did you ever notice me commenting on the skeleton in my family closet? One of my Great Great Grandfathers was a Union soldier from New York City named Heywood. A nice Irish name, he married a Mahoney from Lees Landing in Virginia. He was a member of the GAR.

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  Perhaps we can also do what Thomas's sisters did with his picture? Turn it to face the wall?
                  Foolish woman, the type that'd cut off her nose to spite her face. At War's end she refused a care package sent by her brother, so haughty was her pride. Wonder how long she went hungry.

                  And that's the South's problem. War's over! The planters lost. In fighting tooth and nail to preserve segregation and sharecropper-sim, the South lost countless opportunities to transform herself, for the betterment of all of her people, black and white alike. For just shy of a solid century after Appomattox, the South remained mired in backwardness and ignorance and abject poverty. You can't deny that those conditions persisted as long as they did largely as a result of the South's choice -- as a political body -- to plow her political resources not into education, but into the Lost Cause and Jim Crow.

                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  There are lots of people they can choose to honor. Is the Grand Army of the Republic still running up North?
                  Only vaguely, if at all.

                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  It is the Daughters of the Confederacy that usually raised money for these monuments.
                  I'm assuming DoC is a lot more active than their Northern counterparts, and enjoys a significantly larger membership.

                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  Did you ever notice me commenting on the skeleton in my family closet?
                  You mean to say that you have only one?

                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  One of my Great Great Grandfathers was a Union soldier from New York City named Heywood. A nice Irish name, he married a Mahoney from Lees Landing in Virginia.
                  "Haywood Jablome"? Rimshot

                  Some New Yorker at the time opined that membership in the NY 9th/Irish Bde -- raised from among the Shanty Irish of Five Points -- was predicated upon possession of a felony record. All-in-all, sounds like your Heywood was as fine a gentleman as one can find. Like as not he bent his elbow alongside one of my Flood and McGinnis ancestors who'd sailed over from Co Armagh a wee bit earlier.

                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  He was a member of the GAR.
                  After the war, of course.
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                    Is it time to simply move remaining confederate monuments into an existing or new museum?

                    Err look this is getting ridiculous.
                    Yes, Iím not an American and of course I can be told (and Iím sure I will be!) that itís none of my business.
                    However surely itís time that the steps begin to be taken to quietly and quickly move statues of confederate figures that are on open-air display into a museum or museums?
                    There are existing Confederacy / ACW-themed museums are there not.

                    The controversy surrounding them can also by extension, also move to the museum where both sides of the argument can be presented in attendant explanatory panels, interactive displays.
                    Donít laugh. It could work and the whole atmosphere of hysteria be calmed down if itís done properly.

                    Debate (even venting if need be) in a calmer, rational (and yes one can Ďventí rationally - not all rants are delusional) and Iím sure robust fashion in a proper atmospheric.
                    You can have school history discussion groups, community organisation tours, televised presentations by assorted Ďexpertsí etc., etc..

                    The way things are theyíre now just a symbol of division and target of combativeness which both sides can focus on, with as can been seen, often violent consequences.

                    Now donít get me wrong I donít have the remotest time or support for the Ďlost causeí and the ridiculous smokescreen about the ACW being about íStates Rightsí.
                    The Confederacy and the slavery system which underpinned it was a loathsome institution and the finest thing the US armed services ever did on their own (as opposed to helping the allies defeat Nazism) was to destroy the Confederacy and what it represented.
                    The continued existence of such an entity on the North American continent does not bear thinking about.

                    However, I do not agree with the destruction of historical monuments, even of figures of controversy and divisiveness. Itís a reflex action with undertones of destruction of religious monuments by extremist in other parts of the world.
                    Anyway be interested in your input

                    Regards
                    lodestar
                    The motive behind the removal of the monuments is to incite violence.

                    It's not about events of 150 years ago or even in recent decades.

                    There is no slavery. There is no segregation. No "Jim Crow."
                    And no one's civil rights are being trampled on.

                    The motive behind the removal of the monuments is to incite violence.
                    {}

                    "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The reason the South was mired in economic depression was most of the capital there disappeared. The Slaves were a significant investment. Then you have the loss of income from devastated farms and the destruction of buildings. There was no one left with money to start businesses. The only ones that invested money down South made sure their profits went
                      back to where they came from.

                      It wasn't just the Planters that lost. Everybody in the South lost. Unionists also were burned out and robbed. The ones with any gumption went West.

                      Pruitt
                      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                        The motive behind the removal of the monuments is to incite violence.
                        The only people incited to violence over the removal of a piece of statuary from a public space are those who are so insecure in their personhood that they feel compelled to defend it with obsolete symbolism and rigid groupthink. Ostensibly normal, emotionally healthy, well-adjusted people would never resort to violence over such an issue.

                        Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                        It's not about events of 150 years ago or even in recent decades.

                        There is no slavery. There is no segregation. No "Jim Crow."
                        And no one's civil rights are being trampled on.
                        Yes, slavery is in the past. Yes, no one lives today under a Jim Crow regime. These are indisputable truths. That overlooks, however, the residue of slavery and and Jim Crow which is, in all likelihood, still with us, subtly, but assuredly in our ether, on our atmosphere, in our soil. Going back to Brown v Board of Ed it had been noted that measures of self-esteem and self-worth are generally lower amongst African-Americans than among Caucasians. Rates for various forms of substance abuse are on a per capita basis higher among blacks than whites, probably a leftover of the slave-owner practices described by Frederick Douglass in his Autobiography of a Slave. Can it be that coming from a culture that, for a full century, stressed the self-preservative importance of casting Negro eyes downward whenever they were in the presence of a white man just has to have an impact on a people, perhaps even many years after the prevailing culture has started to evolve. I do believe that Sigmund Freud described a latent shame of his Jewish father for kowtowing to Catholic Austrians in order to prevent unwanted beatings. Can it be that Negros are just as susceptible to such conflicted feelings as other demographics?

                        And surely you can't contend that the War on Drugs has been racially neutral. As prosecuted, the War on Drugs has been, in reality, a war on non-whites. The kind of money it takes to turn the narcotics trade into a multi-trillion dollar global enterprise can't be found in Harlem -- but it can be found in the tony lily-white suburbs. Seen enough Mercs with Fairfield Co CT plates picking up wh*res and dope in the 'hood to know the difference.

                        Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                        The motive behind the removal of the monuments is to incite violence.
                        Then it can just as easily be argued that the motive behind the erection of those monuments -- especially those established in the 1890s-1900s -- was the promotion of violence, of the Lost Cause, Jim Crow, the Klan, et al. If I'm right, then isn't it high time that any kind of commemoration of those policies be brought to a close?
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ones with any gumption went West
                          No, they stayed in place to rebuild.
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            https://webmshare.com/XyKY5

                            Why do this lowlifes **** with the souths cultural heritage? If they don't like it they could move away. But maybe then the whole USA would run out of special trains to bring them away. I really don't get it, why do they **** with a lot of people's cultural heritage instead of just pissing off. They seek ****ing confrontation.

                            Edit: Many of those people angrys about the statues seem leek carpet baggers who moved to the south for economic reasons but don't wanna live how southerners wanna live. In Bavaria we have the same problem with the Prussians flowing in. Either you adapt to where you move or you go back to you own place.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                              Is it time to simply move remaining confederate monuments into an existing or new museum?

                              However, I do not agree with the destruction of historical monuments, even of figures of controversy and divisiveness. Itís a reflex action with undertones of destruction of religious monuments by extremist in other parts of the world.
                              Anyway be interested in your input

                              Regards
                              lodestar
                              Problem with that, moving the monuments to museums, is that the protestors would simply move their protesting to the museums. It's not about removing statues per se, it's not about stopping glorification or worship of the people that are represented by those statues, it's about scoring political points with a constituency. You could remove those statues to Mars, and the usual suspects would show up to protest. What else are they going to do? It's not like they have jobs to go to.

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