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Monuments and Statues Thread - Defacement, Protection, Removal and Discussion

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  • From what I have read and what I find is kind of sad and strange.......The big item that seems to occupy all trains of thought is the statue of some General or other and references to slavery and secession etc while the actual fighting was done by Confederate grunts who any many cases were just as poor, uneducated and subject to indentured service as the slaves they were supposed to be fighting to keep....not everybody was a white, educated plantation owner...

    As usual the "grunts" get fed bs , pay the price and the Generals get the glory

    Toulon France

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    • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
      I disagree with your take on what these monuments represent, however, I agree that they ARE in danager. These monuments will be next, they have already been vandalized. Wake up people, this will continue and is an attack on anything WHITE. And consider this, the NPS does not have the funding to protect them, say goodbye.
      I've heard this somewhere before . . . .



      When I think about it, Howard Stern was downright educational.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • What non-white statues are being attacked?

        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        I've heard this somewhere before . . . .



        When I think about it, Howard Stern was downright educational.
        My worst jump story:
        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
        No lie.

        ~
        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
          What non-white statues are being attacked?
          Lawn jockeys.



          Now in the immortal words of Grand Dragon Daniel Carver, "wake up white people!"

          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • Ancient history, they've already been converted. Think current!



            Rimshot

            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            Lawn jockeys.



            Now in the immortal words of Grand Dragon Daniel Carver, "wake up white people!"

            My worst jump story:
            My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
            As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
            No lie.

            ~
            "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
            -2 Commando Jumpmaster

            Comment


            • I've actually heard Carver still shilling his own, hand-made, SEE-ment nigroes.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JBark View Post
                Proscribed personal comments directed at fellow members deleted
                Slow down there, there is no need to get personal. If you take the time to read some of my posts you will see that I largely agree with you. However, as a history student let me tell you one of the most egregious historical fallacies. Historiography 101 here; you cannot judge people from another historical period by your own standards; they had their own. So, let us get back to Gettysburg monuments. I will posit that at Gettysburg those monuments are in their correct context and thusly can be viewed in an appropriate framework. So, here are a couple of historical facts to put things in perspective for you.

                1) In the antebellum period slave owners constituted less than 4% of the American population.
                2) Of the that 4%, less than 1% actually owned enough slaves to actually run a plantation.
                3) People during that time period associated more closely with their state than with the country as a whole, and that carried over to military units; the 54th Massachusetts is a prime example.
                4) regarding the previous point, prior to the Civil War people used the term the term "the United States are" after the war we moved on to "the United States is."

                I could go on, but I will not write a dissertation for you. I will however encourage you to actually take the time to study the antebellum period. Moreover, I will opine that the monuments and the Confederate battle flag are minor portion of what is still the larger issue. Specifically, that to this day a lot of white people believe that the Civil War was about state's rights rather than about slavery even though seven of the nine states that originally seceded specifically cited opposition to slavery as the primary reason for secession. Until we make it clear to our children that Civil War was unquestionably about slavery rather than states rights, we will continue to have these discussions.
                Last edited by Bad Wolf; 21 Aug 17, 14:32.
                Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                Comment


                • ^ Mingya! What's a matter wit ya, paesano? Wha' you being so reasonable for? Did you oversleep your stop again?
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                  Comment


                  • Another case of ignorant people misunderstanding the story behind a statue. From Wikie...

                    According to the River Road African American Museum the figure originated in commemoration of heroic dedication to duty: "It is said that the 'lawn jockey' has its roots in the tale of one Jocko Graves, an African-American youth who served with General George Washington at the time that he crossed the Delaware to carry out his surprise attack on Hessian forces at Trenton, NJ. The General thought him too young to take along on such a dangerous attack, so left him on the Pennsylvania side to tend to the horses and to keep a light on the bank for their return. So the story goes, the boy, faithful to his post and his orders, froze to death on the river bank during the night, the lantern still in his hand. The General was so much moved by the boy's devotion to his duty that he had a statue sculpted and cast of him, holding the lantern, and had it installed at his Mount Vernon estate. He called the sculpture 'The Faithful Groomsman'."

                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    I've actually heard Carver still shilling his own, hand-made, SEE-ment nigroes.
                    My worst jump story:
                    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                    No lie.

                    ~
                    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                    Comment


                    • How is that a prime example?

                      Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                      Slow down there, there is no need to get personal. If you take the time to read some of my posts you will see that I largely agree with you. However, as a history student let me tell you one of the most egregious historical fallacies. Historiography 101 here; you cannot just people from another historical period by your own standards; they had their own. So, let us get back to Gettysburg monuments. I will posit that at Gettysburg those monuments are in their correct context and thusly can be viewed in an appropriate framework. So, here are a couple of historical facts to put things in perspective for you.

                      1) In the antebellum period slave owners constituted less than 4% of the American population.
                      2) Of the that 4%, less than 1% actually owned enough slaves to actually run a plantation.
                      3) People during that time period associated more closely with their state than with the country as a whole, and that carried over to military units; the 54th Massachusetts is a prime example.
                      4) regarding the previous point, prior to the Civil War people used the term the term "the United States are" after the war we moved on to "the United States is."

                      I could go on, but I will not write a dissertation for you. I will however encourage you to actually take the time to study the antebellum period. Moreover, I will opine that the monuments and the Confederate battle flag are minor portion of what is still the larger issue. Specifically, that to this day a lot of white people believe that the Civil War was about state's rights rather than about slavery even though seven of the nine states that originally seceded specifically cited opposition to slavery as the primary reason for secession. Until we make it clear to our children that Civil War was unquestionably about slavery rather than states rights, we will continue to have these discussions.
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                        Another case of ignorant people misunderstanding the story behind a statue. From Wikie...

                        According to the River Road African American Museum the figure originated in commemoration of heroic dedication to duty: "It is said that the 'lawn jockey' has its roots in the tale of one Jocko Graves, an African-American youth who served with General George Washington at the time that he crossed the Delaware to carry out his surprise attack on Hessian forces at Trenton, NJ. The General thought him too young to take along on such a dangerous attack, so left him on the Pennsylvania side to tend to the horses and to keep a light on the bank for their return. So the story goes, the boy, faithful to his post and his orders, froze to death on the river bank during the night, the lantern still in his hand. The General was so much moved by the boy's devotion to his duty that he had a statue sculpted and cast of him, holding the lantern, and had it installed at his Mount Vernon estate. He called the sculpture 'The Faithful Groomsman'."
                        That tale might even be true, I cannot say. What I know for sure is that a guy like Daniel Carver will never admit of hearing it.

                        I've also heard that lawn jockeys were used as clandestine signals along the Underground Railroad, but apparently there's scant evidence in support of it.
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • Just sell the whole place to a real estate developer... That'll solve things.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            Just sell the whole place to a real estate developer... That'll solve things.
                            Pres Trump has already developed a site in Philadelphia, so you've got to figure that it's only a matter of time before he casts his net west.
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                            Comment


                            • Don't be surprised if this happens in the next twenty years if Democrats get their way.

                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Just sell the whole place to a real estate developer... That'll solve things.
                              My worst jump story:
                              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                              No lie.

                              ~
                              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                                ^ Mingya! What's a matter wit ya, paesano? Wha' you being so reasonable for? Did you oversleep your stop again?
                                Minchia Marc minchia; a classic Sicilian cuss word that I will not translate here to avoid being banned. Actually I am not being reasonable, I am falling back on my history degree. Lee is another example of identification with one's own state. When he turned down command of the Union Army he specifically stated that his loyalty to Virginia over-rode his loyalty to the Union. I am not excusing anyone or anything but I am pointing out that people in 19th Century America were different. Heck, when I first came to the USA Americans did not really drink wine. These days American vintners will gleefully assert, wrongly I will add, that they make the best wines in the world. I am sure that you get my point.
                                Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                                Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                                Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                                Comment

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