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Monuments and Statues Thread - Defacement, Protection, Removal and Discussion

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  • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    Sorry my mistake. The comment was aimed at a couple post before yours
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Massena View Post
      Not if they are in rebellion against your country. Thomas and Gibbon did the right and honorable thing.
      In this day and age I would agree with you, but back in the 1860's it was not the same mindset. State loyalty was very much in play back then.
      Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
        And this is where you have a problem understanding the cause of the fight by Mr. Reb.
        Then perhaps you'll explain it to me -- without omitting any of the pertinent facts.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • This is what happens when you let reality tv take over.

          Why aren't normal people doing anything else than complaining in Facebook and forums?
          Wisdom is personal

          Comment


          • Gone with the Wind now gone from the Orpheum in Memphis....

            For the first time 34-years, the Orpheum Theatre will not show "Gone With The Wind" during its Summer movie series in 2018."Gone With The Wind" was shown on August 11th, and after the theater received several comments about the showing, management made the decision to not show it again.
            http://www.localmemphis.com/news/loc...2018/798426608

            Comment


            • Erasing history, a common practice among all despots

              Erasing history is not that uncommon, The Romans did it regularly, ISIS has been destroying all traces of antiquities as they try to create a world in their own image.
              Hitlers Brownshirts held book burnings to do just that.
              And now the practice has come to the US, in the guise of extreme leftists.
              Yesterday I came across an article that really nails the topic, I share an extract from it here, and invite each of you to read it in its entirety, then comment on its contents.
              Correct and Incorrect Racists? The logical trajectory of tearing down the statue of a Confederate soldier will soon lead to the renaming of Yale, the erasing of Washington and Jefferson from our currency, and the de-Trotskyization of every mention of Planned Parenthood’s iconic Margaret Sanger, the eugenicist whose racist views on abortion anticipated those of current liberal Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. (Ginsburg said, “Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of.”) At what point will those who went ballistic over President Trump’s clumsy “on the one hand, on the other hand” criticism of both the abhorrent racists who marched in Charlottesville (parading around in the very Nazi garb that their grandparents had fought to vanquish) and the unhinged anarchists who sought to violently stop them demand that Princeton University erase all mention of their beloved Woodrow Wilson, the unapologetic racist? Wilson, as an emblematic and typical early progressive, thought human nature could “progress” by scientific devotion to eugenics, and he believed that blacks were innately inferior. Wilson, also remember, was in a position of power — and, owing to his obdurate racism, he ensured that integration of the U.S. Army would needlessly have to wait three decades. Do any of the protestors realize that a chief tenet of early progressivism was eugenics, the politically correct, liberal orthodoxy of its time? Just as in Roman times, chipping away the face of Nero or Commodus did not ensure a new emperor’s good behavior, so tearing down a statue of a Confederate soldier is not going to restore vitality to the inner city, whose tragedies are not due to inanimate bronze. When Minnesota Black Lives Matter marchers chanted of police, “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon,” was that a call for violence that was not long after realized by a spate of racist murders of policemen in Dallas? Are such advocates of torching police officers morally equipped to adjudicate which Confederate statue must come down? And did President Obama swiftly condemn the forces that led the shooter to select his victims for execution? After Major Nidal Malik Hasan murdered 13 fellow soldiers in cold blood, screaming out “Allah Akbar” as he shot, did “both sides” Obama really have to warn America that “we don’t know all the answers yet, and I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts”? And did it take him six years before he discovered the catalysts when finally calling the murders a terrorist attack? Did Obama have to dismiss the Islamist anti-Semitic terrorist slaughter of targeted Jews in a kosher market in Paris with the callous and flippant quip that the murderers had killed “a bunch of folks in a deli in Paris”? Were there demonstrations over that moral equivalence? And was it inevitable that the anti-Semite, homophobe, and provocateur with past blood on his hands for inciting riot and arson, the Reverend Al Sharpton, would advocate yanking public sponsorship of the Jefferson memorial? He who is with sin now casts the first stone? We are in an age of melodrama, not tragedy, in which we who are living in a leisured and affluent age (in part due to the accumulated learning and moral wisdom gained and handed down by former generations of the poor and less aware) pass judgement on prior ages because they lacked our own enlightened and sophisticated views of humanity — as if we lucky few were born fully ethically developed from the head of Zeus. In my own town, there used to be a small classical fountain dedicated by the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union. It was long ago torn down. (Who wishes to recall the forces that led to Prohibition?) In its place now sits an honorific statue to the clawed, half-human Aztec deity Coatlicue, the hungry earth-mother goddess. Coatlicue was quite a bloodthirsty creation, to whom thousands of living captives were sacrificed. The goddess was often portrayed wrapped in a cloak of skin and wearing a neckless of human hearts, hands, and skulls. Our town’s new epigraph atop Coatlicue is Viva la Raza — “Long live the Race.” Should there be demonstrations to yank down such a racialist and Franco-ist hurrah? Or are the supposed victims of white privilege themselves exempt from the very chauvinism that they sometimes allege in others? Is there a progressive rationale that exempts Coatlicue and its racist plaque, whose sloganeering channels the raza/razza mantras of Fascist Spain and Mussolini’s Italy? Are we to have a perpetual war of the statues? The Arc of History More Often Bends Backward There is a need for an abolition of memory in the case of Hitler or Stalin, or here in America perhaps even of a Nathan Bedford Forrest. But when we wipe away history at a whim (why in 2017 and not, say, in 2015 or 2008?), we’d better make sure that our targets are uniquely and melodramatically evil rather than tragically misguided. And before we get out our ropes and sandblasters, we should be certain that we are clearly the moral superiors of those we condemn to oblivion.

              Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-mob-vengeance
              http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-mob-vengeance
              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

              Comment


              • I am sure you can find examples of book burnings in USA way before the current wave of Quixotism against statues. In any case, I a find the current whitewashing of history by alt-right more interesting. In recent years there has been a lot of "slavery wasn't so bad" and "they did it too, so it's not bad we did it" and other such phenomenons. We'll see how that will build up, and what it will build up into.
                Wisdom is personal

                Comment


                • The author needs to read and understand the "Slippery Slope Fallacy."
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    The author needs to read and understand the "Slippery Slope Fallacy."
                    So you didn't read the article and yet know much about its author.
                    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Karri View Post
                      I am sure you can find examples of book burnings in USA way before the current wave of Quixotism against statues. In any case, I a find the current whitewashing of history by alt-right more interesting. In recent years there has been a lot of "slavery wasn't so bad" and "they did it too, so it's not bad we did it" and other such phenomenons. We'll see how that will build up, and what it will build up into.
                      That isn't what the author said.
                      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                      Comment


                      • Revisionism is always a cause for concern because it can lead to controlling information to a total degree, as it did in the communist countries during the Cold War. This is in direct contradiction to the principles American was founded upon, and which we consider the basis of our nation - freedom of information and speech.

                        It also leads to ignoring the lessons of the past, a dangerous path for anyone to take.

                        As for the poster's comment that "slavery wasn't so bad" is somehow evil and misleading, truth can be a relative thing, and should not be founded on family stories told and retold nor on Hollywood fictions.

                        I am not a fan of the fad of "victimization" that permeates some American subcultures. The vast majority of original immigrants to America were victims, often of worse abuses than the black slaves had to endure. No group has a monopoly on abuse.

                        If these "hate Whitey" fanatics wish to destroy the past, then they must also destroy their own past along with their own history of alleged abuses, something I doubt they are willing to do.

                        Instead, it is time to grow up and move on. The past remains what is was and cannot be so easily removed. The future, however, is ours to do with as we please, and that shuld be our focus.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                          So you didn't read the article and yet know much about its author.
                          I read the article. The author is immaterial. He's using the Slippery Slope Fallacy.
                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • The Romans did???? I guess you have never been to Europe. They left buildings and roads all over the countryside and founded major city's of today.

                            an example



                            Foundation is from 2nd century AD





                            These are all from just one city in Germany.

                            Bath England got it's name from the Roman Baths and, and, and
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Revisionism is always a cause for concern because it can lead to controlling information to a total degree, as it did in the communist countries during the Cold War. This is in direct contradiction to the principles American was founded upon, and which we consider the basis of our nation - freedom of information and speech.

                              It also leads to ignoring the lessons of the past, a dangerous path for anyone to take.

                              As for the poster's comment that "slavery wasn't so bad" is somehow evil and misleading, truth can be a relative thing, and should not be founded on family stories told and retold nor on Hollywood fictions.

                              I am not a fan of the fad of "victimization" that permeates some American subcultures. The vast majority of original immigrants to America were victims, often of worse abuses than the black slaves had to endure. No group has a monopoly on abuse.

                              If these "hate Whitey" fanatics wish to destroy the past, then they must also destroy their own past along with their own history of alleged abuses, something I doubt they are willing to do.

                              Instead, it is time to grow up and move on. The past remains what is was and cannot be so easily removed. The future, however, is ours to do with as we please, and that shuld be our focus.
                              Abe said

                              ""Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                                The Romans did???? I guess you have never been to Europe. They left buildings and roads all over the countryside and founded major city's of today.

                                an example



                                Foundation is from 2nd century AD





                                These are all from just one city in Germany.

                                Bath England got it's name from the Roman Baths and, and, and
                                Yes, the Romans did. Their accomplishments have nothing to do with the thread.
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                                Comment

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