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Monuments and Statues Thread - Defacement, Protection, Removal and Discussion

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  • Originally posted by JBark View Post
    While they are not the main issue they show that many people which to carry/show flags and put up or protect established monuments as representations of racism and promotion of white supremacy. I feel we must not allow this as it is plain wrong and is not what this country should stand for.
    I would definitely like to see you try to prove that monuments are erected to represent "white supremacy". That is utter and total nonsense.

    We erect monuments to recognize heroism, leadership or significant events, which occur on all sides of historical events. The generals who fought for the South fought to defend their states rights, their homelands and their families from the North, not to defend slavery. The Civil War was NOT about slavery, as you should know since this is a history forum.

    Lincoln specifically started the Civil War to abolish States Rights, a principle he personally found unacceptable. His obsessive ambition was to turn the Federal government, his government, into the ultimate power controlling the entire Union, and he was willing to do whatever that took.

    Lincoln was fine with slavery, and said so in his writings and speeches repeatedly; however, the whole States' Rights thing didn't sell where it counted, being a founding principle of the nation in the first place, so he sold it as anti-slavery", an emotional issue more acceptable to the ignorant few back home who weren't being sent to die on some battlefield.

    Think George Bush and the war against IRAQ - there never were any WMD's, but he had to sell his stupid little war to America, so he made it up and off he went.

    But for you to claim that monuments to those who fought and died for their ideals and their homes were "white supremacists" makes you the racist in this discussion.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JBark View Post
      While they are not the main issue they show that many people which to carry/show flags and put up or protect established monuments as representations of racism and promotion of white supremacy. I feel we must not allow this as it is plain wrong and is not what this country should stand for.



      .
      I think this country stands for the right to display such flags even if we disapprove of the intent behind the display. (See the 1st amendment)
      Are there other symbols you would accept being banned?
      Soviet flags? ISIS flags? Symbols of the black panthers? BLM?
      Antifa?

      I would submit that the correct approach is to educate people about the meaning behind the symbols and let them make their own decisions.
      When the Nazis marched in Skokie (Jewish chicago suburb with many holocaust survivors at the time) there were scores of objections and protests, but when all was said and done and the march was over, the Nazis looked more ridiculous and didn't affect anyone's lives.

      The march is parodied somewhat in the Blues Brothers movie.
      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

      Comment


      • They already have along with the desecration of gravestones. How can any decent person side with these animals?

        http://conservative-headlines.com/20...ille-cemetery/

        Originally posted by Legionnaire66 View Post
        If they start messing with National Battlefields, that is my violence trigger.
        Last edited by 101combatvet; 23 Aug 17, 11:37.
        My worst jump story:
        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
        No lie.

        ~
        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

        Comment


        • Columbus praised the Taino people as loving and said the Taino were the greatest people in the world. Columbus has a defense, Spain has a defense where as the Third Reich and CSA dont really have a moral defense. The Anti Columbus folks in the world are like so many motivated by propaganda and disinformation meant to divide good people.
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
            I don't agree with JBark on the statue thing, but he has the right to an opinion. I feel many "Lone Confederate" monuments would benefit if a statue to Union veterans was put beside it. It would be up to the donor if the Union veteran was White or Black.

            Pruitt
            Isn't there a monument consisting of two plain posts, one marked North and the other South, connected by a lintel marked Unity? Isn't that monument enough? Isn't the war over yet?
            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
              They already have along with the desecration of gravestones. How can any decent person side with these animals?

              http://conservative-headlines.com/20...ille-cemetery/
              The left won the cultural war and now they are simply pushing the noses of us remnants into the ****.

              It'll get ugly in a couple years.

              Though I wish the KKK would be outlawed. Because I'd rather push over the Virginia statue on seminary ridge rather than have those asshats claim it.

              Comment


              • My caps lock wont come off so bear with me,

                I am for the civil war reenactment battles. That said there is a huge issue at play here....those who are for the CSA monuments should consider that like Jewish folks do with the Third reich, that in their own words some blacks are saying that the Csa were a part of the holocaust against black folks...such a view is not mine but it most be considered. Some black folk are rightfully pointing out a hypocrisy wrt how Jews and third reich Monuments are viewed compared to CSA monuments and blacks. This is not me saying the CSA and Reich were the same but rather just submitting the facts of How folks feel about the issue. I for one honor blacks and whites who might say lets tear down the csa statues in favor of Lincoln Statues or statues of Roman Emperors.
                Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                George S Patton

                Comment


                • I have also been to Gettysburg and I would not be offended by replacing all csa monuments with monuments of black or white folks of the middle ages who stood for greatness and unity.
                  Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                  Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                  George S Patton

                  Comment


                  • I'm sorry, but your proposals make no sense.

                    The new cause celebre is to tear down the statues and monuments to the Confederacy.

                    The idea of taking any Confederate monument away from a National Battlefield Park is ludicrous and would help ruin the Parks.

                    Is that what you want?
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • I don't equate the two. I keep history seperate from the modern hate groups, few if any being real "nazis" or "confederates" even if they carry the same flags.

                      Originally posted by Legionnaire66 View Post

                      Though I wish the KKK would be outlawed. Because I'd rather push over the Virginia statue on seminary ridge rather than have those asshats claim it.
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JBark View Post
                        While they are not the main issue they show that many people which to carry/show flags and put up or protect established monuments as representations of racism and promotion of white supremacy. I feel we must not allow this as it is plain wrong and is not what this country should stand for.



                        There can be no question of the importance of this, your point is correct. Gettysburg can give an accurate depiction of of the battle fought there, the troops that were lost and the terrible cost to humanity caused by this war. The site should, in my thinking, be a reminder that the southern troops had left the Union, that their actions started a terrible war and the battlefield was an invasion of the Union by the secessionists. Statues typically are erected to honor people; men fighting for slavery should not be honored. I know no other sane way to look at this. My thinking is that statues anywhere in this country of Jefferson Davis on down to a rebel private honor them and praise the sacrifice they made. We should not keep such statues up.
                        I find that you and Bass_Man86 are bringing fourth very honorable arguments to the table.
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          I'm sorry, but your proposals make no sense.

                          The new cause celebre is to tear down the statues and monuments to the Confederacy.

                          The idea of taking any Confederate monument away from a National Battlefield Park is ludicrous and would help ruin the Parks.

                          Is that what you want?

                          Kevin if your addressing me know that I come from a military family although I did not serve many in my family did. I admire LE and the US military, Im not a bleeding heart liberal as they say. I provided my argument it is what it is...I would not be offended by taking down all CSA statues including the ones in Gettysburg and replacing them with statues of Lincoln or statues to the black or white men/women of the middle ages who we all can admire.
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

                          Comment


                          • Funny, broaden your knowledge a little it might help you understand better. It's coming.... and NOTHING is sacred.




                            Originally posted by Massena View Post
                            I'm sorry, but your proposals make no sense.

                            The new cause celebre is to tear down the statues and monuments to the Confederacy.

                            The idea of taking any Confederate monument away from a National Battlefield Park is ludicrous and would help ruin the Parks.

                            Is that what you want?
                            My worst jump story:
                            My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                            As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                            No lie.

                            ~
                            "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                            -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                              Isn't there a monument consisting of two plain posts, one marked North and the other South, connected by a lintel marked Unity? Isn't that monument enough? Isn't the war over yet?
                              The war may be over, but a bunch of us are not forgetting! There are also a bunch of monuments and markers in the South that commemorate where Unionists were attacked by Confederates. Do they go as well?

                              Where is this monument you describe?

                              Pruitt
                              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                              Comment


                              • This is nuts. The mayor of New York City is showing his 'Sandinista' side.

                                http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-w...cid=spartandhp
                                We are not now that strength which in old days
                                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                                Comment

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