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Monuments and Statues Thread - Defacement, Protection, Removal and Discussion

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  • Monuments and Statues Thread - Defacement, Protection, Removal and Discussion

    ACG Staff: Due to the number of simultaneous threads on the same subject, I have consolidated them all into a single thread to avoid cluttering the forum.

    Please post new developments, stories or thoughts about any and all statue related discussion to this thread.

    Thank you.

    This afternoon on CNN, Symone Sanders one of the talking heads (who had been part of the Sanders' campaign last year) compared the Confederacy left-handedly with Nazi Germany. It was not only not a valid analogy, but displayed a shocking lack of knowledge and understanding of historical periods.

    The discussion was about Charlottesville this past weekend and the Confederate memorial statue controversy, and Sanders brought up the idea that the Germans don't put statues up for Nazi officials and generals, while in the US there are statues to Confederate generals.

    CNN quickly went to commercial and the subject was neither brought up after the commercial or disagreed with by the host, Jake Tapper.

    I've thought for quite some time that Sanders was an idiot with a big mouth and little wisdom or knowledge and she proved it today. Interestingly, she was told to shut up recently on air by Ken Cuccinelli, the former attorney general of Virginia-as she should have been.

    Attempting to equate the Confederacy with Nazi Germany in any way, shape or form is just plain wrong. It is also ahistorical and clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding of the Civil War period.
    Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 29 Aug 17, 13:35.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Massena View Post
    This afternoon on CNN, Symone Sanders one of the talking heads (who had been part of the Sanders' campaign last year) compared the Confederacy left-handedly with Nazi Germany. It was not only not a valid analogy, but displayed a shocking lack of knowledge and understanding of historical periods.
    Doesn't matter, the damage was done. The one thing that ideologues have in common, from both far ends of the political spectrum, is that they know most people are ignorant, and they prey on that ignorance. Why have a meeting of minds involving civil discourse when instead one can engage in sound-bite policy?

    Therein lies the irony, the worst dictators of the 20th century relied heavily on this ignorance and for twits like Sanders to convey said sound-bite narratives to the masses.

    That said, it is my opinion that journalism is dead, has been for a while, and what passes today as media sources of information is absolutely appalling and an insult to humanity at large.
    You'll live, only the best get killed.

    -General Charles de Gaulle

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by asterix View Post
      Doesn't matter, the damage was done. The one thing that ideologues have in common, from both far ends of the political spectrum, is that they know most people are ignorant, and they prey on that ignorance. Why have a meeting of minds involving civil discourse when instead one can engage in sound-bite policy?

      Therein lies the irony, the worst dictators of the 20th century relied heavily on this ignorance and for twits like Sanders to convey said sound-bite narratives to the masses.
      Excellent posting and I agree completely. Using the term 'twit' is being kind.

      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        So what is to be done about it? If Google engages in citizen journalist censorship as they are threatening to do that takes away one alternative.
        We hunt the hunters

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by asterix View Post
          Doesn't matter, the damage was done. The one thing that ideologues have in common, from both far ends of the political spectrum, is that they know most people are ignorant, and they prey on that ignorance. Why have a meeting of minds involving civil discourse when instead one can engage in sound-bite policy?

          Therein lies the irony, the worst dictators of the 20th century relied heavily on this ignorance and for twits like Sanders to convey said sound-bite narratives to the masses.

          That said, it is my opinion that journalism is dead, has been for a while, and what passes today as media sources of information is absolutely appalling and an insult to humanity at large.
          Know? More like think mainly because they, themselves, are ignorant. What they want is for you to be ignorant too. Knowledge to them is dangerous as it might allow you to think for yourself or give you opposing ideas to the ones they want you to have.

          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
          So what is to be done about it? If Google engages in citizen journalist censorship as they are threatening to do that takes away one alternative.
          Do what those on line guys did to Sha la bouef or whatever his name in and his stupid flag. Use the internet to spread facts and alternatives to the ignorance like creamy peanut butter. Videos, chats, and other postings on lots of boards and on-line media will have an affect. It might take a few days to gain momentum, but once it does the truth will trump (Trump...? ) the lies and propaganda.

          We're seeing some of that with the "fake news" steamroller that crippled CNN's credibility as but one recent example. The MSM can't control the dialogue any more and that means the ability to propagandize or spin a story is becoming difficult to impossible.

          Comment


          • #6
            You know I would be happy to see all symbols of the Confederacy placed in museums where they belong but not because a bunch of idiots who have no understanding of history want it. The problem is where do you stop? Many national heroes were slave owners.
            We hunt the hunters

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
              So what is to be done about it? If Google engages in citizen journalist censorship as they are threatening to do that takes away one alternative.
              The side with the weaker argument always reaches for censorship.

              Funny thing, I heard somebody talking about all the things that both sides at Charlottesville have in common;

              Nazis hate Jews... SJWs hate Israel.
              Nazis are committed Socialists.... so is AntiFa
              White supremacists want Black Babies aborted... so do SJWs.
              White supremacists love running around with sticks and helmets and throwing explosives & bricks.... AntiFa practically invented that game!

              They deserve each other, but god help us all if they ever realize how similar they really are.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                Attempting to equate the Confederacy with Nazi Germany in any way, shape or form is just plain wrong. It is also ahistorical and clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding of the Civil War period.
                I don't see how you can't compare them. Nazi Germany was obviously worse but the Confederate states seceded and fought a war to retain the institution of slavery and the 19th century ideological basis for slavery is one of the direct ancestors to the biological racism of the NSDAP. The primary difference in their world views was that the CSA wanted to keep a permanent African slave class while the Nazis believed that they needed to get rid of the "inferior races". But regardless of this, modern neo-nazis and the modern klansmen have a lot in common and it's not hard to see why.

                Glorifying the Confederacy, attempting to rewrite history to paint it as having noble objectives ("STATES RIGHTS!") and flying the confederate flag in 2017 is stupid and harmful.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ThoseDeafMutes View Post
                  I don't see how you can't compare them. Nazi Germany was obviously worse but the Confederate states seceded and fought a war to retain the institution of slavery and the 19th century ideological basis for slavery is one of the direct ancestors to the biological racism of the NSDAP. The primary difference in their world views was that the CSA wanted to keep a permanent African slave class while the Nazis believed that they needed to get rid of the "inferior races". But regardless of this, modern neo-nazis and the modern klansmen have a lot in common and it's not hard to see why.

                  Glorifying the Confederacy, attempting to rewrite history to paint it as having noble objectives ("STATES RIGHTS!") and flying the confederate flag in 2017 is stupid and harmful.
                  How I see it is racists trying to justify their narrow perspective. I chatted with one of the old black panthers and he tried to convince me that white people were the source of all wars and that I was a white devil... I passed the joint back and somewhat giggled.

                  Then pointed out that war is a epidemic among all races and tribes.
                  Credo quia absurdum.


                  Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Speaking of monuments, now Teddy Roosevelt has to go..
                    Hundreds of activists gathered at the American Museum of Natural History on Monday to take down the “racist” statue of Theodore Roosevelt and an urgent call to rename Columbus Day.
                    More than 200 people cheered outside the museum as activists covered the statue of Roosevelt on horseback flanked by an African American and Native American on either side and demanded it be ultimately removed.
                    “A stark embodiment of the white supremacy that Roosevelt himself espoused and promoted,” the group explained in a statement. “The statue is seen as an affront to all who pass it on entering the museum, but especially to African and Native Americans”
                    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...statue-protest

                    Meanwhile in Durham, NC


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Those people in Durham are vandals and should be charged as such. They should also be charged for the value of the statue monetarily.

                      Apparently it's on county property, not state.
                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ThoseDeafMutes View Post
                        I don't see how you can't compare them. Nazi Germany was obviously worse but the Confederate states seceded and fought a war to retain the institution of slavery and the 19th century ideological basis for slavery is one of the direct ancestors to the biological racism of the NSDAP. The primary difference in their world views was that the CSA wanted to keep a permanent African slave class while the Nazis believed that they needed to get rid of the "inferior races". But regardless of this, modern neo-nazis and the modern klansmen have a lot in common and it's not hard to see why.

                        Glorifying the Confederacy, attempting to rewrite history to paint it as having noble objectives ("STATES RIGHTS!") and flying the confederate flag in 2017 is stupid and harmful.
                        I believe that it is a stretch and not a valid analogy.

                        Attempting to rewrite any history is wrong, and I agree with you on that point as well as the modern neo-nazis and the kluckers have much in common, not the least being that they are white nationalists and terrorists.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          I believe that it is a stretch and not a valid analogy.

                          Attempting to rewrite any history is wrong, and I agree with you on that point as well as the modern neo-nazis and the kluckers have much in common, not the least being that they are white nationalists and terrorists.
                          From The Dinosaur Lame Stream Media.
                          "And now, It's time to go over the carefully selected stories that have been chosen to manipulate your emotions and thinking."
                          And, that is exactly what the sponsors of those protestors are attempting to do, enact the Taliban mentality of destroying all references and symbols of the Confederacy in order to rewrite history. (latest Drudge headlines.)

                          My prediction if this is allowed to continue, Stone Mountain will be razed. Then, it has to continue with the removal of the Washington and Jefferson Monument. Why, because they were slave owners that fathered a lot of offspring. Just look up the long list of Blacks with the last name of Washington and Jefferson.

                          PROTESTORS TOPPLE CONFEDERATE STATUE IN NC...
                          Kentucky Mayor: Confederate Monuments Will Be Moved...
                          Gainesville takes down...
                          Vandalized in Atlanta...
                          Baltimore statues to be destroyed...
                          WIRE: Charlottesville Just The Beginning...
                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                            The side with the weaker argument always reaches for censorship.

                            Funny thing, I heard somebody talking about all the things that both sides at Charlottesville have in common;

                            Nazis hate Jews... SJWs hate Israel.
                            Nazis are committed Socialists.... so is AntiFa
                            White supremacists want Black Babies aborted... so do SJWs.
                            White supremacists love running around with sticks and helmets and throwing explosives & bricks.... AntiFa practically invented that game!

                            They deserve each other, but god help us all if they ever realize how similar they really are.
                            Molotov Ribbentrop pact....
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                              You know I would be happy to see all symbols of the Confederacy placed in museums where they belong but not because a bunch of idiots who have no understanding of history want it. The problem is where do you stop? Many national heroes were slave owners.
                              The difference is 'many national heroes...'. The statues of the rebel leadersare commemorate those who fought against and sought to destroy the US.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment

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