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Trump vs. Kim: A battle of egos

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  • #46
    As witnessed by my previous posts, Trump is actually fulfilling the Obama policy as it pertains to NK
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
      As witnessed by my previous posts, Trump is actually fulfilling the Obama policy as it pertains to NK
      I agree, but Trump comments undermine the legitimacy of the US policy. Any military action that will involve high causalities on either side will provoke an intense examination of the immediate prelude to combat. Moral legitimacy is not a given, even if North Korea launches a first strike with WMDs. The White House will be responsible for securing it.

      Furthermore, Trump's statements seem to signal that the United States will require more from North Korea at the negotiating table. This makes it difficult for Kim Jong-Un to back down, and could also discourage China. Beijing won't accept North Korea's compilation. They know the US and its allies are not prepared to engage in the kind of war to bring that about. So the President has to be consistently realistic.

      This all is not to say President Trump was completely wrong. Its no secret that if America elects to engage in combat, North Korea will take a serious beating. We don't need nukes. Our conventional capabilities are more than enough to disrupt and erode every level Kim Jong-Un's empire. North Korea and South Korea would survive, but he probably won't.

      There is nothing wrong with reminding North Korea of the horrible course it seems to taking. However, Trump probably shouldn't use this kind of rhetoric, at least in public. This is a conclusion I often find myself arriving at with the new President. His administration would be better off if Trump stayed off Twitter, and relied on a teleprompter.
      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
        I agree, but Trump comments undermine the legitimacy of the US policy. Any military action that will involve high causalities on either side will provoke an intense examination of the immediate prelude to combat. Moral legitimacy is not a given, even if North Korea launches a first strike with WMDs. The White House will be responsible for securing it.

        Furthermore, Trump's statements seem to signal that the United States will require more from North Korea at the negotiating table. This makes it difficult for Kim Jong-Un to back down, and could also discourage China. Beijing won't accept North Korea's compilation. They know the US and its allies are not prepared to engage in the kind of war to bring that about. So the President has to be consistently realistic.

        This all is not to say President Trump was completely wrong. Its no secret that if America elects to engage in combat, North Korea will take a serious beating. We don't need nukes. Our conventional capabilities are more than enough to disrupt and erode every level Kim Jong-Un's empire. North Korea and South Korea would survive, but he probably won't.

        There is nothing wrong with reminding North Korea of the horrible course it seems to taking. However, Trump probably shouldn't use this kind of rhetoric, at least in public. This is a conclusion I often find myself arriving at with the new President. His administration would be better off if Trump stayed off Twitter, and relied on a teleprompter.
        This is not correct: Kim tries to intimidate the West:he knows that the West /US are swarming with defeatists (who are already whining: it is the end of the world) and with people for whom every enemy of Trump is a good guy .

        But Trump will not be intimidated, because he knows that Kim is bluffing, for the reasons every intelligent person knows (thus not the defeatists and the enemies of Trump ).

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
          Illregardless, you went on to imply that North Korea didn't attack South Korea and start the "police action" of about 67 years ago, when using one my error to attempt to invalid the rest of the post.
          Still waiting Bock. Where is that post that I even inferred that the Nork's didn't invade.

          You cannot and have proven yourself a

          Illregardless

          Non word and you complain of others spelling and grammar.

          Foolish!
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by ljadw View Post
            This is not correct: Kim tries to intimidate the West:he knows that the West /US are swarming with defeatists (who are already whining: it is the end of the world) and with people for whom every enemy of Trump is a good guy .

            But Trump will not be intimidated, because he knows that Kim is bluffing, for the reasons every intelligent person knows (thus not the defeatists and the enemies of Trump ).
            What should intimidate Trump is the consequences of our options. The cost in economic and political costs of military action are enormous. Sanctions won't work without sufficient Chinese cooperation. The President can't get what he wants through huffing and puffing, particularly with all the lung trouble he has.

            Again, I think it is important the President express confidence in our military capacity to address the North Korea threat. I disagree in the delivery.
            "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

            Comment


            • #51
              Trump needs to stop twitter, and needs to step back from the microphones and let his Sec. of State and others address the press. Limit his exposure.
              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
                What should intimidate Trump is the consequences of our options. The cost in economic and political costs of military action are enormous. Sanctions won't work without sufficient Chinese cooperation. The President can't get what he wants through huffing and puffing, particularly with all the lung trouble he has.

                Again, I think it is important the President express confidence in our military capacity to address the North Korea threat. I disagree in the delivery.
                Kim also has no options and he knows it : if he launchs his missiles they will be shot above Japan;if they reach US territory, the riposte will be swift and terrible .His missiles (without nuclear load) and his nuclear weapons (without missiles ) are to weak to hurt seriously US .

                OTOH,he knows that he is safe :no one will attack him (unification would be disastrous for SK),the danger for Kim is domestic : 20 years ago there was a big famine that almost destroyed the regime;it did not happen, because the liberals who were ruling (Clinton ) and who had Kim II by his balls refused to push trough : they gave him food and $ .

                The economic situation is now better in NK ,but a new famine is still possible and Nk will be forced to beg again in Washington,but Trump is not soft and will refuse ,and than Kim will blackmail US : food or I destroy LA .

                Not before 2020 will NK be able to launch a ICBM with a nuclear head .

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Deltapooh View Post
                  . Moral legitimacy is not a given We don't need nukes.


                  Our conventional capabilities are more than enough to disrupt and erode every level Kim Jong-Un's empire. North Korea .

                  1) US does not need moral legitimacy


                  2) that is very risky: with conventional air attacks it is very difficult to destroy the nuclear capacity of NK .

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                    Trump needs to stop twitter, and needs to step back from the microphones and let his Sec. of State and others address the press. Limit his exposure.
                    Trump needs to stop a lot of things-twitter, lying repeatedly, talking too much, and being a bully to name a few.
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      All this drama reminds me of a poorly directed and scripted Hollywood b grade movie and all that's missing now is for the director to send in Dennis Rodman as an intermediary agent of the free world to save the day.

                      Time to tune out.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Looks like Dear Leader blinked:

                        Translation of excerpt from 21:30 UTC Pyongyang KCBS newscast:

                        "Respected Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un inspected the Command of the Strategic Force of the Korean People's Army on Aug. 14.

                        He waved back to enthusiastically cheering service members and posed for a picture with them.

                        He went round historical mementoes and data displayed at the Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism Study Hall.

                        Going round them, he looked back with deep emotion on the great leadership feats of the brilliant commanders of Mt. Paektu, recorded on every page of the history of the KPA Strategic Force displaying its might with the strength unprecedented in the world as a powerful strike service, symbolic of the dignity and power of Korea.

                        Then he listened to General Kim Rak Gyom's decision on the Strategic Force's plan for an enveloping fire at Guam at the command post.

                        He examined the plan for a long time and discussed it with the commanding officers in real earnest.

                        He praised the KPA Strategic Force for drawing up a close and careful plan as planned and intended by the Party and examined the firing preparations for power demonstration.

                        After listening to the commander of the Strategic Force that it is waiting for the order of the Party Central Committee after rounding off the preparations for the enveloping fire at Guam, he said with great satisfaction that the spirit of Hwasong artillerymen is very high and he was freshly determined, seeing by himself the combat preparedness and the sky-high spirit of the Hwasong artillerymen of the large combined unit.

                        He said that the U.S. imperialists caught the noose around their necks due to their reckless military confrontation racket, adding that he would watch a little more the foolish and stupid conduct of the Yankees spending a hard time of every minute of their miserable lot.

                        He said that he wants to advise the U.S., which is driving the situation on the Korean peninsula into the touch-and-go situation, running helter-skelter, to take into full account gains and losses with clear head whether the prevailing situation is more unfavorable for any party.

                        In order to defuse the tensions and prevent the dangerous military conflict on the Korean peninsula, it is necessary for the U.S. to make a proper option first and show it through action, as it committed provocations after introducing huge nuclear strategic equipment into the vicinity of the peninsula, he said, adding that the U.S. should stop at once arrogant provocations against the DPRK and unilateral demands and not provoke it any longer.

                        He said that if the Yankees persist in their extremely dangerous reckless actions on the Korean peninsula and in its vicinity, testing the self-restraint of the DPRK, the latter will make an important decision as it already declared, warning the U.S. that it should think reasonably and judge properly not to suffer shame that it is hit by the DPRK again.

                        He said that if the planned fire of power demonstration is carried out as the U.S. is going more reckless, it will be the most delightful historic moment when the Hwasong artillerymen will wring the windpipes of the Yankees and point daggers at their necks, underlining the need to be always ready for launching to go into action anytime once our Party decides."


                        From: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sq43q3

                        Philip
                        "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

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                        • #57
                          Trump-Kim :1-0

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                          • #58
                            Well, if I were betting, I'd expect the little troll to try something that gets the world's attention, and possibly makes the US look bad.

                            I'd fire another ICBM, without warhead deep into the Pacific, more or less towards Guam, but not to hit anything but open ocean and see what the US does in response to that.

                            Would the US shoot it down? That would give N. Korea a tremendous propaganda boost at home. "We tested a missile and the US illegally shot it down..."
                            Would the US watch but take no action? Again, a propaganda win for NK: "We successfully tested a missile that could have hit Guam, but we missed intentionally..."

                            Stand by on this one...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Well, if I were betting, I'd expect the little troll to try something that gets the world's attention, and possibly makes the US look bad.

                              I'd fire another ICBM, without warhead deep into the Pacific, more or less towards Guam, but not to hit anything but open ocean and see what the US does in response to that.

                              Would the US shoot it down? That would give N. Korea a tremendous propaganda boost at home. "We tested a missile and the US illegally shot it down..."
                              Would the US watch but take no action? Again, a propaganda win for NK: "We successfully tested a missile that could have hit Guam, but we missed intentionally..."

                              Stand by on this one...
                              yep that exactly what I would do

                              Trump is weak politically anything to Troll Trump is a good thing at this point for Kim (of course China may actually be holding his leash tighter so might not happen)

                              Trumps Plate is overflowing currently domestic issues Iran pushing buttons Korea South America (glad I am not in charge of this mess.)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                                Still waiting Bock. Where is that post that I even inferred that the Nork's didn't invade.

                                You cannot and have proven yourself a

                                Illregardless

                                Non word and you complain of others spelling and grammar.

                                Foolish!
                                Well "John" I've other things to do in life than 24/7 here and replying minor taunts.

                                FWIW, it's implication by ommission since you only focused on the first sentence in an effort to invalidate the rest of the post you were responding to, then rambled into off-topic question underscoring the ommission.
                                http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...1&postcount=26

                                Continued in your subsequent posts.

                                Your turn again at lame non-humor and CYA.

                                Comment

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