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Trump vs. Kim: A battle of egos

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PhilipLaos View Post
    Today's statements from both sides now clearly define this as a battle of egos: Trump vs. Kim (or, as Bill Maher puts it: Fat Man vs. Little Boy).

    Here is a likely scenario in the upcoming few days as I see it:

    Mid Aug: Kim does not launch the 4 promised missiles towards Guam. TRUMP WINS. He stared down the NK leader and the NK leader blinked,

    Mid Aug: Kim launches his 4 missiles at Guam and they are all shot down. TRUMP WINS. "You can't hurt us".

    Kim launches 4 missiles at Guam and one or more get through. Trump offers no military response. KIM WINS He has demonstrated his capability of hurting the US.

    Trump retaliates by destroying all the known nuclear and missile facilities in North Korea. Kim makes no major military response. TRUMP WINS.

    North Korea responds by launching attacks south of the DMZ and on Seoul. Trump responds with an all out attack on North Korea prompting a full-scale war on the peninsula.

    TRUMP LOSES In that he will be blamed for the hundreds of thousands of deaths that will be traced back to his "They will face fire and fury the like of which the world has never seen" speech.

    KIM LOSES in that his country has been wiped from the map.

    Something like that. Please agree or disagree and give details.

    Philip
    Most likely scenario is that nothing will happen : the missiles of NK are not built to be used as weapon but to be used as blackmail.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      I'm betting China, just as in the original Korean War would invade regardless of what the US says. They want N. Korea as a buffer state. They don't want the US and a unified Korea on their doorstep.

      This isn't about China helping N. Korea. It's about China preempting an occupation of N. Korea by the US and S. Korea. That is, a ground war erupts and the US and S. Korea look like they're heading to the Yalu again.

      Your reading of my scenarios is completely incorrect.

      I would agree China will stay out of this mess so long as it doesn't result in a second Korean ground war. If it does, I'm betting China jumps in to keep the US out.
      I tend to agree and I would add that the PRC would be okay with a unified Korea opposed to the United States and that North Korean tantrums serve to divert attention from some of the underhanded maneuverings that the PRC has been carrying out as in the case of the South China Sea. The bottom line is that both China and the DPRK want the USA out of Asia and virtually anything that diminishes American influence in Asia serves that ultimate purpose. Moreover, by participating in this immature war of insults the Donald is serving Kim Jong-un and his lackeys admirably because they can keep on blaming the DPRK's woes and misfortunes on the evil Americans.

      IMO, the best way that the Donald could undermine the PRC and the DPRK regime is to give the NORKs what they claim they want. Request the normalization of diplomatic relations, open an embassy, halt military exercises with the ROK and next thing you know that fat little jerk Kim Jong-un would have to take ownership of his country's problems. If we ever proposed it would never happen because that is the last thing that fat ass Kim and the Beijing commissars that make his hereditary monarchy possible actually want.

      Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

      Initiated Chief Petty Officer
      Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

      Comment


      • #18
        Well, Bass that is something that hasn't been tried. I find few down sides to the idea.

        Do you think that Kim is a golfer?
        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

        Comment


        • #19
          I suppose the U.S. must at least be considering evacuating the families of service members from South Korea at this point. Difficult one that since it would look REALLY AWFUL to the civilian Korean residents of Seoul who don't have an evacuation option.

          Philip
          "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
            What is going to be the cost of bringing NK into the circle of humanity?
            Or the US for that matter.
            "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
            - Benjamin Franklin

            The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

            Comment


            • #21
              The U.S. and South Korea are allies and hold joint military exercises every year which really annoy the North, but are considered essential by the U.S.

              Are not North Korea and China also allies since they fought the Korean War on the same side - a war that has not officially ended? I never hear about them holding joint military exercises.

              Why not?

              Philip
              "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by PhilipLaos View Post
                The U.S. and South Korea are allies and hold joint military exercises every year which really annoy the North, but are considered essential by the U.S.

                Are not North Korea and China also allies since they fought the Korean War on the same side - a war that has not officially ended? I never hear about them holding joint military exercises.

                Why not?

                Philip
                Remember that the PRC only came into the war after the UN crossed the 38th and neared the Yalu. Also the PRC has matured while the Norks have stood still.
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by PhilipLaos View Post
                  The U.S. and South Korea are allies and hold joint military exercises every year which really annoy the North, but are considered essential by the U.S.

                  Are not North Korea and China also allies since they fought the Korean War on the same side - a war that has not officially ended? I never hear about them holding joint military exercises.

                  Why not?

                  Philip
                  China is more interested in world peace than the US. Which admitting so may bring into question one's patriotism. But, should patriotism be blindly following and supporting your country when you know they're morally wrong. Should American citizens aspire to be more like North Korean, mostly mindless drones supporting any and everything their country does. Or, is patriotism caring enough about your country to call them out for their wrongs and demand better... Given our actions in Syria, Libya, Iraq and now NK, it's clear that there's one huge hindrance to global peace.
                  "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                  - Benjamin Franklin

                  The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                    China is more interested in world peace than the US. Which admitting so may bring into question one's patriotism. But, should patriotism be blindly following and supporting your country when you know they're morally wrong. Should American citizens aspire to be more like North Korean, mostly mindless drones supporting any and everything their country does. Or, is patriotism caring enough about your country to call them out for their wrongs and demand better... Given our actions in Syria, Libya, Iraq and now NK, it's clear that there's one huge hindrance to global peace.
                    In the case of "Syria, Libya, Iraq" and other parts of that region, Islamic Jihad is a larger factor. The fact that Iran and NK have been working together on both missle and nuclear weapons development further underscores this.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                      Remember that the PRC only came into the war after the UN crossed the 38th and neared the Yalu. Also the PRC has matured while the Norks have stood still.
                      Remember that the PRC "created" North Korea while expanding the joys of Communism around eastern Asia outside of their borders during the late 1940s. Hence the post Japanese occupation of Korea resulted in the divided nation.

                      Note also that North Korea started the war by invading the South.

                      Note that the war is on "Hold" as no formal Peace Treaty has been signed ... since to do such means the North (and China) would have to acknowledge being the belligerents of such.

                      Note that since the 1953 "armistice" North Korea has continued its arms build-up beyond that needed for defense, has engaged in small scale attacks and provocations (you do recall the USS Pueblo incident I hope) towards the South and continues to annouce and advocate a policy of eventual "annexation" of the South.

                      Note that since the 1953 "armistice" the USA/West has engaged in various forms of diplomacy towards the North and nothing of this sort has reduced the arms build-up in the North or softened their threats towards the South.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        You start off WRONG!

                        the end of World War II in 1945, Korea was divided into two zones along the 38th parallel by the United States and the Soviet Union, with the north occupied by the Soviets and the south by the Americans

                        The PRC wasn't even a nation until 49.

                        Let's discuss something you might know about.

                        What type of TP do you prefer?
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                          You start off WRONG!

                          the end of World War II in 1945, Korea was divided into two zones along the 38th parallel by the United States and the Soviet Union, with the north occupied by the Soviets and the south by the Americans

                          The PRC wasn't even a nation until 49.

                          Let's discuss something you might know about.

                          What type of TP do you prefer?
                          49 is late forties and PRC took over from Russia. My error on details in the first sentence of the post but the rest holds, which you seem to overlook.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                            49 is late forties and PRC took over from Russia. My error on details in the first sentence of the post but the rest holds, which you seem to overlook.
                            You stated that the PRC created NK. Bend, dodge, deflect all you want. That isn't fact, plain and simple.

                            Charmin I presume.
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                              You stated that the PRC created NK. Bend, dodge, deflect all you want. That isn't fact, plain and simple.

                              Charmin I presume.
                              The PRC didn't create N. Korea, but it did preserve it. Without Chinese intervention on the ground in the Korean War, N. Korea was doomed to end its existence as a state.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                                The PRC didn't create N. Korea, but it did preserve it. Without Chinese intervention on the ground in the Korean War, N. Korea was doomed to end its existence as a state.
                                That isn't the point of debate.
                                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                                Comment

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