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  • Trump vs. Kim: A battle of egos

    Today's statements from both sides now clearly define this as a battle of egos: Trump vs. Kim (or, as Bill Maher puts it: Fat Man vs. Little Boy).

    Here is a likely scenario in the upcoming few days as I see it:

    Mid Aug: Kim does not launch the 4 promised missiles towards Guam. TRUMP WINS. He stared down the NK leader and the NK leader blinked,

    Mid Aug: Kim launches his 4 missiles at Guam and they are all shot down. TRUMP WINS. "You can't hurt us".

    Kim launches 4 missiles at Guam and one or more get through. Trump offers no military response. KIM WINS He has demonstrated his capability of hurting the US.

    Trump retaliates by destroying all the known nuclear and missile facilities in North Korea. Kim makes no major military response. TRUMP WINS.

    North Korea responds by launching attacks south of the DMZ and on Seoul. Trump responds with an all out attack on North Korea prompting a full-scale war on the peninsula.

    TRUMP LOSES In that he will be blamed for the hundreds of thousands of deaths that will be traced back to his "They will face fire and fury the like of which the world has never seen" speech.

    KIM LOSES in that his country has been wiped from the map.

    Something like that. Please agree or disagree and give details.

    Philip
    Last edited by PhilipLaos; 11 Aug 17, 09:48.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

  • #2
    War sucks. Sometimes it needs to be applied. A rational thought about the peace afterword would be good.
    What is going to be the cost of bringing NK into the circle of humanity?
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

    Comment


    • #3
      I see it a bit differently

      By the end of the year: Kim does not launch the 4 promised missiles towards Guam. TRUMP WINS. He stared down the NK leader and the NK leader blinked,

      By the end of the year: Kim launches his 4 missiles at Guam and they are all shot down. TRUMP WINS. "You can't hurt us".

      Kim launches 4 missiles at Guam and one or more get through. Kim demonstrates his capability of hurting the US.

      The US retaliates massively. China invades North Korea and occupies the country to preclude a US- South Korean invasion. The occupation has an indefinite time attached.
      China indemnifies the US for their losses out of North Korean funds. CHINA and TRUMP WIN

      Trump retaliates by destroying all the known nuclear and missile facilities in North Korea. Kim makes no major military response. TRUMP WINS.

      North Korea responds by launching attacks south of the DMZ and on Seoul. Trump responds with an all out attack on North Korea prompting a full-scale war on the peninsula. China invades and occupies North Korea to preclude a US-S. Korean occupation. The US and S. Korea are indemnified for losses out of N. Korean funds.

      TRUMP and CHINA WIN. KIM LOSES in that his country has been occupied by China who immediately starts making friendly with S. Korea on trade.

      Comment


      • #4


        Originally posted by PhilipLaos View Post
        Today's statements from both sides now clearly define this as a battle of egos: Trump vs. Kim (or, as Bill Maher puts it: Fat Man vs, Little Boy).

        Here is a likely scenario in the upcoming few days as I see it:

        Mid Aug: Kim does not launch the 4 promised missiles towards Guam. TRUMP WINS. He stared down the NK leader and the NK leader blinked,

        Mid Aug: Kim launches his 4 missiles at Guam and they are all shot down. TRUMP WINS. "You can't hurt us".

        Kim launches 4 missiles at Guam and one or more get through. KIM WINS He has demonstrated his capability of hurting the US.

        Trump retaliates by destroying all the known nuclear and missile facilities in North Korea. Kim makes no major military response. TRUMP WINS.

        North Korea responds by launching attacks south of the DMZ and on Seoul. Trump responds with an all out attack on North Korea prompting a full-scale war on the peninsula.

        TRUMP LOSES In that he will be blamed for the hundreds of thousands of deaths that will be traced back to his "They will face fire and fury the like of which the world has never seen" speech.

        KIM LOSES in that his country has been wiped from the map.

        Something like that. Please agree or disagree and give details.

        Philip

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          I see it a bit differently

          By the end of the year: Kim does not launch the 4 promised missiles towards Guam. TRUMP WINS. He stared down the NK leader and the NK leader blinked,

          By the end of the year: Kim launches his 4 missiles at Guam and they are all shot down. TRUMP WINS. "You can't hurt us".

          Kim launches 4 missiles at Guam and one or more get through. Kim demonstrates his capability of hurting the US.

          The US retaliates massively. China invades North Korea and occupies the country to preclude a US- South Korean invasion. The occupation has an indefinite time attached.
          China indemnifies the US for their losses out of North Korean funds. CHINA and TRUMP WIN

          Trump retaliates by destroying all the known nuclear and missile facilities in North Korea. Kim makes no major military response. TRUMP WINS.

          North Korea responds by launching attacks south of the DMZ and on Seoul. Trump responds with an all out attack on North Korea prompting a full-scale war on the peninsula. China invades and occupies North Korea to preclude a US-S. Korean occupation. The US and S. Korea are indemnified for losses out of N. Korean funds.

          TRUMP and CHINA WIN. KIM LOSES in that his country has been occupied by China who immediately starts making friendly with S. Korea on trade.
          https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.865d7a064cee

          “China should also make clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten U.S. soil first and the U.S. retaliates, China will stay neutral,” it added. “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so.”
          Your scenario has a big hole in it....
          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
          “To talk of many things:
          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
          Of cabbages—and kings—
          And why the sea is boiling hot—
          And whether pigs have wings.”
          ― Lewis Carroll

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by PhilipLaos View Post
            Today's statements from both sides now clearly define this as a battle of egos: Trump vs. Kim (or, as Bill Maher puts it: Fat Man vs, Little Boy).

            Here is a likely scenario in the upcoming few days as I see it:

            Mid Aug: Kim does not launch the 4 promised missiles towards Guam. TRUMP WINS. He stared down the NK leader and the NK leader blinked,

            Mid Aug: Kim launches his 4 missiles at Guam and they are all shot down. TRUMP WINS. "You can't hurt us".

            Kim launches 4 missiles at Guam and one or more get through. KIM WINS He has demonstrated his capability of hurting the US.

            Trump retaliates by destroying all the known nuclear and missile facilities in North Korea. Kim makes no major military response. TRUMP WINS.

            North Korea responds by launching attacks south of the DMZ and on Seoul. Trump responds with an all out attack on North Korea prompting a full-scale war on the peninsula.

            TRUMP LOSES In that he will be blamed for the hundreds of thousands of deaths that will be traced back to his "They will face fire and fury the like of which the world has never seen" speech.

            KIM LOSES in that his country has been wiped from the map.

            Something like that. Please agree or disagree and give details.

            Philip
            Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

            Initiated Chief Petty Officer
            Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

            Comment


            • #7
              The main problem with this overall situation is that the two heads of state are both blowhards and bullies, and both are acting like demented children.

              Neither of them has any military education, do not understand nuclear weapons and their capabilities and the damage that they can cause.

              Trump would be wise to let the State Department and Secretarly Tillerson work the problem diplomatically, supported by General Mattis at Defense. And he needs to muzzle idiots in his administration such as Sebastian Gorka who ran his mouth yesterday about Secretary Tillerson. Gorka is a fool, a mid-level White House staffer, whose comprehension of world affairs, diplomacy, and military matters are nil.

              He's nothing but a talking head and Trump's butt-boy. In short, he doesn't know or understand squat.

              Trump is lowering himself, and the presidency, to Kim's level which is beneath the office which he holds. Exchanging threats is stupid and will not accomplish anything except a possible nuclear mess. Trump has the subtlety, and the inherent intelligence and wisdom, of an ape with a paintbrush.
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                I wonder if Trump is straying so far from reality that he doesn't realize this?

                http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gua...cid=spartandhp

                Or, he doesn't care because the US citizens on Guam can't vote...?
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Trump's early morning tweets today:

                  Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

                  Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!
                  Donald J. Trump Retweeted

                  U.S. Pacific Command‏ @PacificCommand

                  #USAF B-1B Lancer #bombers on Guam stand ready to fulfill USFK’s #FightTonight mission if called upon to do so https://go.usa.gov/xRV8p
                  Your turn, Mr. Kim.
                  "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."— Bertrand Russell

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    The main problem with this overall situation is that the two heads of state are both blowhards and bullies, and both are acting like demented children.

                    Neither of them has any military education, do not understand nuclear weapons and their capabilities and the damage that they can cause.

                    Trump would be wise to let the State Department and Secretarly Tillerson work the problem diplomatically, supported by General Mattis at Defense. And he needs to muzzle idiots in his administration such as Sebastian Gorka who ran his mouth yesterday about Secretary Tillerson. Gorka is a fool, a mid-level White House staffer, whose comprehension of world affairs, diplomacy, and military matters are nil.

                    He's nothing but a talking head and Trump's butt-boy. In short, he doesn't know or understand squat.

                    Trump is lowering himself, and the presidency, to Kim's level which is beneath the office which he holds. Exchanging threats is stupid and will not accomplish anything except a possible nuclear mess. Trump has the subtlety, and the inherent intelligence and wisdom, of an ape with a paintbrush.
                    And those are the Donald's positive qualities!
                    Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                    Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                    Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                      And those are the Donald's positive qualities!


                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree with Trumps language against NK. Kim is often using harsh language against America not to mention acting like a bully in general. It seems one can not show pictures of Churches in NK, or any semblance of freedom in NK.

                        What I would recommend to Trump is to include messages of equality and liberty in his language against NK...dont just stand up to Kim and point out the economic drawback that NK brings to the entire world.... but also say because NK rule does not follow basic human rights that is it not the duty of people everywhere to stand for freedom and thereby stand against the NK gov. Thats how the American and French revolutions got so popular worldwide...they spoke of freedom and dignity for all people.
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Massena View Post
                          Gorka is a fool, a mid-level White House staffer, whose comprehension of world affairs, diplomacy, and military matters are nil.

                          He's nothing but a talking head and Trump's butt-boy. In short, he doesn't know or understand squat.























                          At least, he knows that the father-in-law of Trump is not a communist .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post



                            .dont just stand up to Kim and point out the economic drawback that NK brings to the entire world.... but also say because NK rule does not follow basic human rights that is it not the duty of people everywhere to stand for freedom and thereby stand against the NK gov

                            Thats how the American and French revolutions got so popular worldwide...they spoke of freedom and dignity for all people.
                            1) That would be very stupid : the domestic affairs of NK are not our business . It is not the duty of people everywhere to stand for freedom .

                            2) Wrong : the American and French revolutions did not speak of freedom and dignity for all people .

                            The NK have chosen Kim;if they will be nuked, they can only blame themselves .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                              https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.865d7a064cee

                              Your scenario has a big hole in it....
                              I'm betting China, just as in the original Korean War would invade regardless of what the US says. They want N. Korea as a buffer state. They don't want the US and a unified Korea on their doorstep.

                              This isn't about China helping N. Korea. It's about China preempting an occupation of N. Korea by the US and S. Korea. That is, a ground war erupts and the US and S. Korea look like they're heading to the Yalu again.

                              Your reading of my scenarios is completely incorrect.

                              I would agree China will stay out of this mess so long as it doesn't result in a second Korean ground war. If it does, I'm betting China jumps in to keep the US out.

                              Comment

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