Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What is the "Deep State"?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is the "Deep State"?

    I'm starting to see people refer to something as the "Deep State". From what I gather, it's the people who really run everything. Is this just the latest incarnation of the Masons/Knights Templar/Elders of Zion/Bildenbergers/New World Order conspiracy theorists or something else?

  • #2
    "Masons/Knights Templar/Elders of Zion/Bildenbergers/New World Order"

    I thought those were the Deep State? You left out the CIA/DIA/NRO/NSA/DHS/califragilistic.

    Comment


    • #3
      It doesn't need to be any conspiracy nonsense, rather the tendency of senior public sector employees to look to their own interests and personal political beliefs.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_within_a_state
      Last edited by Surrey; 29 Jul 17, 14:45.
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
        I'm starting to see people refer to something as the "Deep State". From what I gather, it's the people who really run everything. Is this just the latest incarnation of the Masons/Knights Templar/Elders of Zion/Bildenbergers/New World Order conspiracy theorists or something else?
        I'd suggest something else. Following is quote~copy-paste of a post from page 20 of the "Trump Russia" thread from several days ago, provided as a starter ...
        From WiKi;
        ...
        Deep state has been defined in 2014 by Mike Lofgren, a former Republican U.S. congressional aide, as "a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process."[12][13]

        In The Concealment of the State, professor Jason Royce Lindsey argues that even absent a conspiratorial agenda, the term deep state is useful for understanding aspects of the national security establishment in developed countries, with emphasis on the United States. Lindsey writes that the deep state draws power from the national security and intelligence communities, a realm where secrecy is a source of power.[14]
        ...
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_s..._United_States

        Current use goes beyond this to include other Agencies and Depts. where employees fail to set their personal and/or political(ideological) agendas aside to perform their job within guidelines and regulations, often to just the opposite. While seen most often at mid to higher levels of management, it also shows up in the rank-n-file.

        My oldest son whom works for Immigration has encountered such among his co-workers and some supervisors.
        ...
        http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=298 As you see, #298 there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
          I'm starting to see people refer to something as the "Deep State". From what I gather, it's the people who really run everything. Is this just the latest incarnation of the Masons/Knights Templar/Elders of Zion/Bildenbergers/New World Order conspiracy theorists or something else?
          It's a close relative of the Dark Net, the Shadow Government, the Freemasons, the Evil Zionist Empire and the Illuminati, all of whom are believed by the majority of the lemming drones to actually control the world.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #6
            Deep state, the term and what it alludes too, certainly is the Templar-Mason-Jews-Aliens "true power" conspiracy, based off the Turkish phenomenon.

            What makes it conspiracy fuel is the lack of hard evidence. In the Turkish example, it was well known that the military and certain political and economic leaders were operating closely, hand in hand, to expand their influence - which is what has happened in every authoritarian regime. The key was that it was instigated by those in power and reinforced multiple times, through coups and direct action, by those in charge.

            But it's not always just a conspiracy. Some just abuse the term because it makes things sound more malicious than they otherwise would be (see Obama as Communist/Marxist; Trump as Fascist; et al.).

            The final misuse would be those who don't understand the original term and use it because others have, assuming who said it to them was right without double checking their facts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Further ...
              ...
              Definition in political science

              See also: State within a state
              Deep state has been defined in 2014 by Mike Lofgren, a former Republican U.S. congressional aide, as "a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process."[12][13]

              In The Concealment of the State, professor Jason Royce Lindsey argues that even absent a conspiratorial agenda, the term deep state is useful for understanding aspects of the national security establishment in developed countries, with emphasis on the United States. Lindsey writes that the deep state draws power from the national security and intelligence communities, a realm where secrecy is a source of power.[14] Alfred W. McCoy states that the increase in the power of the U.S. intelligence community since the September 11 attacks "has built a fourth branch of the U.S. government" that is "in many ways autonomous from the executive, and increasingly so."[15]
              Use of the term during the Trump administration

              Donald Trump supporters use the term to refer to their claims that intelligence officers and executive branch officials guide policy through leaking or other internal means.[16][11] The term's conspiratorial undertone has made it popular on conservative and far-right news outlets sympathetic to the Trump administration, including Breitbart News.[17] It has also been discussed by The New York Times[18] and The Observer.[19]
              ...
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_s..._United_States

              Comment


              • #8
                Some material so far would suggest that the "Deep State" is mostly an inter-personal collaboration of sorts among members of mostly the USA Intel. Orgs. along with selected political and industry/business/banking leaders.

                I'm not about to pre-emptively exclused such.

                However, another variation is that the lower level and less organized aspect of common ideology and "abuse" of power via rank-n-file administrative application for a "lone/rogue warrior" to apply their version of SJW "ethics"/"agenda".

                Both deserve and will get other posts in the days to come ...

                Consider that if "Trump~Russia" had the table switched ~ Hillary Clinton won and now the "Right" is engaged in 'Clinton Derangement Syndrom' - CDS ; and out to "investigate" Her past dealings with Russians and Her "Manchurian Candidate" potential ...

                Oh the oumbrage from those whom are now "Trump Derailers" as we could expect they would rally to H.Clinton's 'Support and Defense', claiming this "Russian Influence and Collusion 'stuff' " is all "Conspiracy Theory" NonsSense! ... []

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                  \
                  Unfortunately for the alleged author of the definition, he actually "defined" the existing American government:

                  Deep state has been defined in 2014 by Mike Lofgren, a former Republican U.S. congressional aide, as "a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process."
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                    Deep state has been defined in 2014 by Mike Lofgren, a former Republican U.S. congressional aide, as "a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process."....
                    That fits neatly with what I thought, meaning that much of the 5 million Federal employees are un-elected bureaucrats and the higher-ups are appointed officials that hold far more power and influence than our elected representatives .

                    Put bluntly; the Republic has been undermined by the labyrinth of Byzantine bureaucrats that were meant to serve the Govt. and now rule in all but name.
                    Somewhat like the Eunuchs of Imperial China and Persia, or the Jannisaries of Ottoman Turkey.
                    The same old hoard of Barnacles that have always slowed, and eventually sank, great ships of state in the past.

                    You all can try to make it seem like ... whatever , but it is nothing new or amazing or even very exotic.
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the problem with "Deep state" is there is no agreed upon definition about it. Also it appears that mostly the right wing use it. It is a fuzzy concept with no firm definition.
                      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I thought I had covered it pretty well, but if you want to go deeper -
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hS3vn-tPE


                        "Why is the Rum gone?"

                        -Captain Jack

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                          I'm starting to see people refer to something as the "Deep State". From what I gather, it's the people who really run everything. Is this just the latest incarnation of the Masons/Knights Templar/Elders of Zion/Bildenbergers/New World Order conspiracy theorists or something else?
                          it's basically gibberish, given the way it is casually used
                          Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                          Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                          Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                          Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                            it's basically gibberish, given the way it is casually used
                            Classic Disinformation ; muddy the waters with manufactured conspiracy theories told by whacko actors in order to hide the simple truth.

                            Jeez.... doesn't anyone think critically anymore?
                            "Why is the Rum gone?"

                            -Captain Jack

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anyone who does not agree with you and is in the way.
                              One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions - Admiral Grace Hopper

                              "The eunuch should not take pride in his chastity."
                              Wu Cheng'en Monkey

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X