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SCOTUS will hear Colorado Bakery/Same Sex Cake case in the next term.

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  • But I don't think the "traditional" wedding tag would save you, anymore than "No blacks weddings" would spare a business from being charged with discrimination.
    No, but my outrageous pricing will, and if they still want to pay, hell yes........being a capitalist is good Christian practice.
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

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    • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
      Last quote: “I just don’t make cakes for same-sex weddings.”

      He offered a different set of services on the basis of sexual orientation, which is against Colorado law. Legally it would have been no different if he had said: "I just don't make cakes for black weddings." The label on the wedding (gay or black) is irrelevant.

      Baker makes wedding cakes. A gay couple wanted a wedding cake. Bakers refused to give them a wedding cake because they were gay. That they would have given them a birthday cake is also irrelevant. By treating gay customers differently, by not offering the same public services, they were discriminating against them for reasons of sexual orientation.

      Sexual orientation and race were both protected from discrimination under the same Colorado law. As long as his reasoning was to refuse some or all services for one of those reasons, he was in the wrong according to the Colorado law. His offering of birthday cake doesn't absolve his ilegal discrimination over wedding cake.
      And championing your cause with lawsuits and death threats, regardless of how many judges you can talk into supporting it, isn't doing you any favors. And while I understand you want gays to have equal rights, you're shooting your cause in the foot defending the approach of coercion. Trust me it goes a lot smoother when you're civil. If you try and destroy their business that just taps into the persecution mentality and makes my job harder. Also the more your cause behaves in an holish fashion, the less guys like me really feel like going out of our way to defend it. More than once moderates have stepped back because we were sickened by the behavior of the homosexual lobby. It's hard to make the case for humanizing the homosexual community when you scream obscenities onto Christian yelp pages. And moderate Christians are your best allies so kindly reel it in. You won't abuse these people into accepting your case whether that abuse is legal or not. You can't legislate a change of heart.
      A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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      • Originally posted by Salinator View Post
        No, but my outrageous pricing will, and if they still want to pay, hell yes........being a capitalist is good Christian practice.
        Dammit Sal, I love the way you think.

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        • Really, Really!
          I think that SCOTUS has more important things to rule on than cakes, what are we all in Kindergarten here or are we all getting silly
          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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          • Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
            Really, Really!
            I think that SCOTUS has more important things to rule on than cakes, what are we all in Kindergarten here or are we all getting silly
            Yes, but that would require the bakers to stop their case. And I don't think they wanna admit defeat.

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            • Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
              Did they offer to sell them any different kind of cake? As long as they can cite their religious provision and as long as they aren't totally refusing service I have no problem with it.

              One more thing: I believe in gay rights and have been counselling other Christians on seeing gays as equals. I would love to see all bakers not have any issue here. But when the homosexual lobby takes the hole approach that makes my job difficult. Guys like me are the guys you want because we know scripture, we are a part of Christian culture, and thus we make the best outreach. And we do get results. There's a reason more and more Christians accept gays and believe me its not because they were abused into submission. You're dealing with a religion that treats persecution as a sign that you're on the right track. When you start up with the death threats and lawsuits and general hattery that just initiates the siege mentality and then no one listens to the diplomats.

              So when it comes to mistreating these bakers I have two beefs. One it rubs me the wrong way as a person who appreciates free speech and expression in the Voltaire fashion. Two it frustrates me because you're indirectly sabotaging my efforts to actually help you.

              Best to just be civil.
              I agree it's best to be civil but if one of my kids turns out to be gay and is lucky or stupid enough to want to get married I'd like them to be treated the same as everyone else. The same applies if they are marrying someone of a different colour.
              Religion should not be a cloak to hide bigotry behind. The law of the land is the only law that matters. The laws and rules of scripture have no more standing legally than the rules of a golf club.
              "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
              validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
              "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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              • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                I agree it's best to be civil but if one of my kids turns out to be gay and is lucky or stupid enough to want to get married I'd like them to be treated the same as everyone else. The same applies if they are marrying someone of a different colour.
                Religion should not be a cloak to hide bigotry behind. The law of the land is the only law that matters. The laws and rules of scripture have no more standing legally than the rules of a golf club.
                I agree religion shouldn't excuse bigotry. But I don't think this is bigotry. Bigotry involves hate. The bakers aren't doing what they are doing because they are bad people who hate gays. They are doing what they're doing because they were raised under a conservative interpretation of ancient scripture. They aren't motivated by malice. They're motivated by reverence of tradition. Should they bake the cake? Sure. But since they aren't evil or hateful people I don't think it unreasonable to refrain from ruining their livelihood and letting moderate Christians ease them forward. Slam the Westboro crowd as hard as you can with my blessing but these guys are just bakers with old values.

                And let's talk scale here. Wrecking them financially over a cake doesn't exactly jive with the weregild so to speak. If you have to penalize them at least make it proportional to the offense. It's a CAKE not a highborn son.
                A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                • Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                  Really, Really!
                  I think that SCOTUS has more important things to rule on than cakes, what are we all in Kindergarten here or are we all getting silly
                  the question is between State laws and Freedom of Religion/Expression, always a important type of case.
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

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                  • Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                    I agree religion shouldn't excuse bigotry. But I don't think this is bigotry. Bigotry involves hate. The bakers aren't doing what they are doing because they are bad people who hate gays. They are doing what they're doing because they were raised under a conservative interpretation of ancient scripture. They aren't motivated by malice. They're motivated by reverence of tradition. Should they bake the cake? Sure. But since they aren't evil or hateful people I don't think it unreasonable to refrain from ruining their livelihood and letting moderate Christians ease them forward. Slam the Westboro crowd as hard as you can with my blessing but these guys are just bakers with old values.

                    And let's talk scale here. Wrecking them financially over a cake doesn't exactly jive with the weregild so to speak. If you have to penalize them at least make it proportional to the offense. It's a CAKE not a highborn son.
                    I agree with that. There is no malice or hatred in the position taken by the bakers. There is no need for malice of hatred from those on the other side. Reasoned discourse with the aim of education and empathy is the best option.
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                      I agree with that. There is no malice or hatred in the position taken by the bakers. There is no need for malice of hatred from those on the other side. Reasoned discourse with the aim of education and empathy is the best option.
                      A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                      Comment

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