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  • Secret court rebukes NSA for illegal surveillance

    I don't know what is more disturbing, the fact that we have a secret court that watches over our secret spy agency , or that the secret court that watches the secret spy agency has ruled the secret spy's are out of line.....spying on us illegally!
    But this goes to the point, we have a spy agency that has for years been spying on us, the US citizens, that violates the very core of our constitution.
    What is more frightening is that this agency is at war with the duly elected president of this nation.
    The NSA and the CIA has been undermining and overthrowing foreign governments for decades.
    Now they are using those skills to overthrow our government.

    WASHINGTON – U.S. intelligence agencies conducted illegal surveillance on American citizens over a five-year period, a practice that earned them a sharp rebuke from a secret court that called the matter a “very serious” constitutional issue.

    The criticism is in a lengthy secret ruling that lays bare some of the frictions between the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and U.S. intelligence agencies obligated to obtain the court’s approval for surveillance activities.

    The ruling, dated April 26 and bearing the label “top secret,” was obtained and published by the news site Circa.
    More here,
    http://www.startribune.com/secret-co...nce/424703443/
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

  • #2
    There has always been a secret court since the PATRIOT ACT that approves secret warrants, imprisonments without representation or trial and similar functions. IIRC, there are a number of judges and they rotate their responsibilities...and no, it isn't comforting at all.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      There has always been a secret court since the PATRIOT ACT that approves secret warrants, imprisonments without representation or trial and similar functions. IIRC, there are a number of judges and they rotate their responsibilities...and no, it isn't comforting at all.
      Yep, that's the major reason I dislike shrub. Didn't he realize it could and would be abused? Well we're of the older generation and won't have to endure the things to come. Our kids though, I really worry for their freedoms...
      Credo quia absurdum.


      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
        Yep, that's the major reason I dislike shrub. Didn't he realize it could and would be abused? Well we're of the older generation and won't have to endure the things to come. Our kids though, I really worry for their freedoms...
        Of course he did, but he obviously didn't care, and neither did Obama for that matter.

        There are three basic choices in our future - socialism, anarchy or some faint hope of improvement.

        If racism/hatred/related violence isn't curbed soon, my bet will be on anarchy.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Of course he did, but he obviously didn't care, and neither did Obama for that matter.

          There are three basic choices in our future - socialism, anarchy or some faint hope of improvement.

          If racism/hatred/related violence isn't curbed soon, my bet will be on anarchy.
          I think they are going to allow people to be attacked until they demand more security and more of a police state until our rights are gone and they have total control.

          Ever hear of the Tytlier Cycle?

          The Tytler Cycle Revisited



          Written by admin888 on June 16, 2015 · Leave a Comment
          by John Eberhard
          03/14/09

          In 2003 I became very interested in a theory developed by Scottish historian Alexander Tytler, and wrote an article on it at the time, which ironically enough is now getting a lot of attention due to being linked to from Wikipedia.
          Tytler’s theory set forth a cycle that every democracy goes through, which goes like this. Tytler said the cycle starts out with a society in bondage. Then it goes in this sequence:
          Bondage
          Spiritual Faith
          Courage
          Liberty
          Abundance
          Selfishness
          Complacency
          Apathy
          Dependence
          Then starting over with Bondage
          Tytler organized these items in a circle:

          I was fascinated with this because to me it seemed to explain what we are going through as a country right now, where people are more interested in how they can somehow soak the system to get their free ride, than building anything. Clearly we are on the left side of this cycle, somewhere in the selfishness, complacency, apathy or dependence side.
          Recently I found an article entitled “An American Tragedy” dated 12/16/08 by James Quinn, a financial writer and senior director of strategic planning for a major university. Most of the article is about disgraced investment guru Bernie Madoff, but a good chunk of it concerns the Tytler cycle and exactly where Quinn thinks we are in the cycle. Here’s what Quinn has to say:
          “The following quote attributed to Scottish history professor Alexander Tyler in 1787, seems to portray an accurate reflection of what has occurred during our 200+ years of existence as a democracy.
          "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
          “The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
          • From bondage to spiritual faith;
          • From spiritual faith to great courage;
          • From courage to liberty;
          • From liberty to abundance;
          • From abundance to complacency;
          • From complacency to apathy;
          • From apathy to dependence;
          • From dependence back into bondage


          “These words were written two years before George Washington became our first President. There is so much truth in these words it makes me shudder, especially since we are clearly in stage 7. An honest appraisal of our country’s downward spiral is necessary to begin the process of redemption. We have continually voted ourselves increased benefits, dependent upon the printing presses of the Federal Reserve to sustain our country’s ponzi scheme. We have pawned our future and the bill will eventually come due.
          “The GreatAmericanRepublic
          “My assessment of the chronological sequence our democracy has progressed through, follows.

          “From bondage to spiritual faith (1760 to 1769)

          • King George III becomes King of England
          • Currency Act, Sugar Act, Stamp Act, Quartering Act, Townshend Act passed by Parliament
          • Sons of Liberty formed by John Adams, Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, John Hancock, Patrick Henry, among others.

          “From spiritual faith to great courage (1770 to 1783)
          • Boston massacre
          • Samuel Adams organizes the Committees of Correspondence
          • Parliament passes the Tea Act
          • Boston Tea Party
          • The First Continental Congress
          • Battle of Bunker Hill
          • Thomas Paine publishes Common Sense
          • Revolutionary War rages for six years
          • British surrender at Yorktown
          • Treaty of Paris ends Revolutionary War

          “From courage to liberty (1784 to 1865)
          • Constitutional Convention
          • Constitution ratified by 13 states
          • George Washington elected President
          • Bill of Rights passed
          • Fugitive Slave Act passed
          • Louisiana Purchase
          • Robert Fulton invents steamboat
          • War of 1812
          • Monroe Doctrine
          • President Andrew Jackson battles bankers which leads to the Panic of 1837
          • U.S. Mexican War
          • California gold rush
          • Compromise of 1850
          • Dred Scott Decision
          • Abraham Lincoln elected President
          • Confederate states secede from the Union
          • Emancipation Proclamation
          • Civil War rages for four years
          • Union is restored
          • 13th Amendment abolishes slavery

          “From liberty to abundance (1866 to 1969)
          • Civil Rights Act of 1866
          • First Trans-Continental Railroad
          • Alexander Graham Bell invents the telephone
          • Industrial Revolution
          • General Electric founded
          • Spanish American War
          • U.S. Steel founded
          • Airplane invented
          • Automobile invented
          • Federal Reserve created
          • World War I
          • Great Depression
          • New Deal programs implemented by FDR
          • Golden Gate Bridge completed
          • World War II
          • Holocaust
          • Atomic bomb used to end war with Japan
          • Marshall Plan rebuilds Europe & Japan
          • US emerges from the war as the only great economic power
          • Cold War
          • Korean War
          • Interstate highway system built
          • Civil Rights Movement
          • John F. Kennedy assassinated
          • Vietnam War
          • Great Society programs implemented
          • Civil Rights Act of 1964
          • Martin Luther King assassinated
          • Neil Armstrong walks on the moon

          “From abundance to complacency (1970 to 1989)
          • Roe vs Wade
          • President Nixon resigns in disgrace
          • Oil embargo
          • Ronald Reagan elected President
          • Military buildup and tax cuts
          • Fall of the Soviet Union

          “From complacency to apathy (1990 to 2000)
          • Gulf War
          • Bill Clinton elected President
          • Stock market boom
          • Gridlock between Congress & President leads to budget surpluses
          • President Clinton acquitted in impeachment trial

          “From apathy to dependence (2001 to 2007)
          • George W. Bush elected President
          • Nasdaq stock bubble bursts
          • 9/11 attack
          • Alan Greenspan lowers rates to 1%
          • Invasion of Afghanistan
          • Department of Homeland security created
          • Invasion of Iraq
          • Hurricane Katrina
          • Home prices double
          • Financial derivatives grow to over $100 trillion

          “From dependence back into bondage (2008 to ????)
          • Housing prices collapse
          • Financial firms collapse
          • Government and Federal Reserve intervene to prop up the worldwide financial system
          • Government bailouts of financial firms and auto manufacturers
          • Federal Reserve & U.S. Treasury commit over $8 trillion of taxpayer funds
          • Barrack Obama elected President
          • Immediate borrowing & stimulus packages exceeding $1 trillion are discussed
          • Federal Reserve lowers rates to below 1%”

          ===============================
          I tend to believe the above is pretty accurate, because we can see right now that the US government under Obama-Reid-Pelosi is making an unprecedented power grab, by increasing spending dramatically, and increasing their socialistic hold over American life. The current Democratic Party leadership is the most radically leftist/socialist we have ever had. One of their recent actions was to basically repeal the welfare reform which was enacted in the 1990s, and which was so successful too. Obama’s new budget document blatantly outlines his goals to punish high producers because they have broken the rules, which is as Marxist a plan as I have ever seen.
          The question I have had for some time is whether this will continue through the entire cycle of Bondage, Spiritual Faith, Courage, Liberty, Abundance, Selfishness, Complacency, Apathy, Dependence, then starting over with Bondage; or whether concerned and knowledgeable individuals can somehow halt the decline and keep us from going into a new period of bondage?
          Clearly we see the American public being apathetic and willing to allow the US government to take over more and more of our lives, and thus becoming more and more dependent.
          And yet, at the same time, I see outrage and a building frustration by a large segment of the population, with protest events (the recent spate of Tea Party events), petitions, and a plethora of columns in the conservative press, decrying the power grab. Will it be enough? Can we prevent a new period of bondage?



          http://commonsensegovernment.com/the...cle-revisited/
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • #6
            Secret courts...in the land of the free, after years of being told we have a transparent government......
            If we have secret courts we probably have secret prisons.
            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

            Comment


            • #7
              We gotta super-secret handshake...

              What else could we want?


              On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

              ACG History Today

              BoRG

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                If we have secret courts we probably have secret prisons.
                Well yeah, all over the world. It's not even a secret.
                Wisdom is personal

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Admiral View Post
                  We gotta super-secret handshake...

                  What else could we want?


                  I don't find it that funny. Sorry, but we have political operatives running intelligence agencies with an agenda.
                  That means they no longer answer to elected representatives, but to political masters, or worse the bidder.
                  They are operating outside of the powers granted under our Constitution.
                  Let's Party!
                  Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                    I think they are going to allow people to be attacked until they demand more security and more of a police state until our rights are gone and they have total control.

                    Ever hear of the Tytlier Cycle?
                    I have and I agree, only that's not how I see it happening. I see instead a rise of neighborhood security groups who openly arm themselves and shoot intruders.

                    This will be modeled by entire towns in the country doing the same, with or without the assistance of their local law enforcement - most likely without since the LEO trend is to do nothing.

                    Only the libbies will cry for someone to take over their lives - the rest of America will be too busy cleaning and loading their guns.

                    Out here, we will simply revert to the Wild West pattern of old, with every man and a lot of women openly armed.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Admiral View Post
                      We gotta super-secret handshake...

                      What else could we want?


                      Someone else to shake with...
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        I have and I agree, only that's not how I see it happening. I see instead a rise of neighborhood security groups who openly arm themselves and shoot intruders.

                        This will be modeled by entire towns in the country doing the same, with or without the assistance of their local law enforcement - most likely without since the LEO trend is to do nothing.

                        Only the libbies will cry for someone to take over their lives - the rest of America will be too busy cleaning and loading their guns.

                        Out here, we will simply revert to the Wild West pattern of old, with every man and a lot of women openly armed.
                        Yup!

                        And I'd shake your hand any day, me old friend!

                        🏔
                        On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

                        ACG History Today

                        BoRG

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Admiral View Post
                          Yup!

                          And I'd shake your hand any day, me old friend!

                          🏔
                          Yours too! (I'm left handed so I can still shoot!)
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment

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