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  • You asked, you received.....

    And now you're b*tching about it. And the only ones suprised......are those that did the asking.....

    https://www.calibrepress.com/2017/05/get-police-ask/
    Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

  • #2
    Sometimes I wonder... if the hard-Left isn't deliberately trying to raise the chaos-level to such a degree that they will be able to pass their own version of that botched Homeland Security measure.
    One that makes a large % of Americans paid informers, as was the case in the old Warsaw Pact, and replaces the kind of Cops we know with a more Gestapo-style framework.

    If they are, it can't work. As this article shows, Democrat Mayors start to panic the moment things really start to make them look bad.
    Bad, incompetent, out of touch and just plain terrified.
    "Why is the Rum gone?"

    -Captain Jack

    Comment


    • #3
      The beatings will continue until morale improves.

      Short-sighted liberals: they forget that once the media loses interest they will still need us, far more than we need them.

      I expect a very rough summer in old Baltimore. BPD will be very politically correct, very mindful of sensibilities, and very careful not to upset anyone.

      And the bodies will continue to hit the streets in record numbers.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        The beatings will continue until morale improves.

        Short-sighted liberals: they forget that once the media loses interest they will still need us, far more than we need them.

        I expect a very rough summer in old Baltimore. BPD will be very politically correct, very mindful of sensibilities, and very careful not to upset anyone.

        And the bodies will continue to hit the streets in record numbers.
        People will stop wanting to be cops. Maybe they already are.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
          People will stop wanting to be cops. Maybe they already are.
          They are. Even with lowered hiring standards agencies are struggling (and some are failing) to maintain basic manning levels.

          25 years ago my agency saw 20 qualified applicants for every opening. As of 2016 we averaged two per.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #6
            FBI, eh?

            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
            And now you're b*tching about it. And the only ones suprised......are those that did the asking.....

            https://www.calibrepress.com/2017/05/get-police-ask/
            ... I'm wondering when the civil authorities of Baltimore will consider hiring race-sensitive security guards to police their lovely city, reduce that high murder rate, can't hurt right? Ooops, bet they already have!

            "I am Groot"
            - Groot

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
              People will stop wanting to be cops. Maybe they already are.
              +1 to AJRs comments. Currently we're running very light on experience on the street. I'm in the top half of experience on the street that's not a supervisor.....that would have been unheard of 8-10 years ago when I started.

              Hiring standards have dropped, in my agency not because the ones on paper were purposely dropped, but because we're having to accept who applies rather than selecting from a pool of 10-20 for each slot. Our jail is perennially short on manpower for example, and so is the street. We're trying to add 3 more to the SWAT team but there just aren't qualified applicants right now.

              You still get some decent ones from the 'dynasties', IOW my dad/mom was a cop and I'm getting into the family business. We're lucky enough to be relatively close to a bunch of bases, so we get soldiers and Marines which tend to have a decent work ethic and some idea of the nature of the job.

              But overall, the cadet quality has dropped to the point where a lot of us are gravely concerned about 10 years down the road. A lot of college graduates that don't want to work the hours demanded, don't comprehend chain of command, lazy, and ill prepared mentally or physically for the job (sometimes both).

              And among the long-serving veterans, morale got a bump when Trump was elected, because we know that at least for 4 years we don't have the DoJ on a witch hunt to destroy good cops. But expect a mass exodus regardless of administration in about 10 years, and if someone like Obama or Hillary was to be elected next go-round, expect that exodus to bump up substantially as guys 'age out' rather than pull the full 30, or take early retirement packages and go on to other jobs for their last 15 working years or so. And with them goes thousands of hours of training apiece (I've got just under a thousand hours now, and I expect to hit around 2000 hours before my 15th year) plus experience that in many cases is invaluable and cannot be quantified.

              The days of the 28 year patrol sergeant who has seen it all are quickly disappearing. Today's cadets are already voicing expectations of making detective in 3-5 years, and will swap agencies to make that happen or burn out when their expectations aren't met. IMHO, a cop isn't worth the cost of his kit until he hits the 5 year mark. It takes that long to gain the experience and maturity that his sergeant can leave him be for a shift and not worry about him screwing up.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Marmat View Post
                ... I'm wondering when the civil authorities of Baltimore will consider hiring race-sensitive security guards to police their lovely city, reduce that high murder rate, can't hurt right? Ooops, bet they already have!

                I think it's about time for a true race-sensitive cop to patrol the city...

                The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                  +1 to AJRs comments. Currently we're running very light on experience on the street. I'm in the top half of experience on the street that's not a supervisor.....that would have been unheard of 8-10 years ago when I started.

                  Hiring standards have dropped, in my agency not because the ones on paper were purposely dropped, but because we're having to accept who applies rather than selecting from a pool of 10-20 for each slot. Our jail is perennially short on manpower for example, and so is the street. We're trying to add 3 more to the SWAT team but there just aren't qualified applicants right now.

                  You still get some decent ones from the 'dynasties', IOW my dad/mom was a cop and I'm getting into the family business. We're lucky enough to be relatively close to a bunch of bases, so we get soldiers and Marines which tend to have a decent work ethic and some idea of the nature of the job.

                  But overall, the cadet quality has dropped to the point where a lot of us are gravely concerned about 10 years down the road. A lot of college graduates that don't want to work the hours demanded, don't comprehend chain of command, lazy, and ill prepared mentally or physically for the job (sometimes both).

                  And among the long-serving veterans, morale got a bump when Trump was elected, because we know that at least for 4 years we don't have the DoJ on a witch hunt to destroy good cops. But expect a mass exodus regardless of administration in about 10 years, and if someone like Obama or Hillary was to be elected next go-round, expect that exodus to bump up substantially as guys 'age out' rather than pull the full 30, or take early retirement packages and go on to other jobs for their last 15 working years or so. And with them goes thousands of hours of training apiece (I've got just under a thousand hours now, and I expect to hit around 2000 hours before my 15th year) plus experience that in many cases is invaluable and cannot be quantified.

                  The days of the 28 year patrol sergeant who has seen it all are quickly disappearing. Today's cadets are already voicing expectations of making detective in 3-5 years, and will swap agencies to make that happen or burn out when their expectations aren't met. IMHO, a cop isn't worth the cost of his kit until he hits the 5 year mark. It takes that long to gain the experience and maturity that his sergeant can leave him be for a shift and not worry about him screwing up.
                  Exactly. We're not getting the military veterans we used to, and the burnout rate of the young ones is terrible. When I started in my current agency our patrol division was ramrodded by a cadre of ten-year-service Patrolmen. Now we have Corporals with six years' service.

                  Our command staff, myself included, are looking at retirement in the next 5-6 years, and the trouble is that those who should be our replacements are retiring when they hit 20. There is an experience and training gap that is growing.

                  When I joined out Tac team, the team leader had been on the team for years, and the Team Administrator has been in every position on the Team.

                  Now I'm the Team administrator; my team leader is planning to retire in a year or so, and there is no supervisor with Tactical experience. None of the people eligible to test for my rank have Tactical experience.

                  So at some point in the future we will field a team with leadership that will be experiencing their first live Tactical situation. That is not good.

                  There is no substitute for experience.

                  This is like the NFL recruiting from a pool of guys who only played in college. With the specter of recruiting guys who always were interested in football but never tried it in the future.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                    +1 to AJRs comments. Currently we're running very light on experience on the street. I'm in the top half of experience on the street that's not a supervisor.....that would have been unheard of 8-10 years ago when I started.

                    Hiring standards have dropped, in my agency not because the ones on paper were purposely dropped, but because we're having to accept who applies rather than selecting from a pool of 10-20 for each slot. Our jail is perennially short on manpower for example, and so is the street. We're trying to add 3 more to the SWAT team but there just aren't qualified applicants right now.

                    You still get some decent ones from the 'dynasties', IOW my dad/mom was a cop and I'm getting into the family business. We're lucky enough to be relatively close to a bunch of bases, so we get soldiers and Marines which tend to have a decent work ethic and some idea of the nature of the job.

                    But overall, the cadet quality has dropped to the point where a lot of us are gravely concerned about 10 years down the road. A lot of college graduates that don't want to work the hours demanded, don't comprehend chain of command, lazy, and ill prepared mentally or physically for the job (sometimes both).

                    And among the long-serving veterans, morale got a bump when Trump was elected, because we know that at least for 4 years we don't have the DoJ on a witch hunt to destroy good cops. But expect a mass exodus regardless of administration in about 10 years, and if someone like Obama or Hillary was to be elected next go-round, expect that exodus to bump up substantially as guys 'age out' rather than pull the full 30, or take early retirement packages and go on to other jobs for their last 15 working years or so. And with them goes thousands of hours of training apiece (I've got just under a thousand hours now, and I expect to hit around 2000 hours before my 15th year) plus experience that in many cases is invaluable and cannot be quantified.

                    The days of the 28 year patrol sergeant who has seen it all are quickly disappearing. Today's cadets are already voicing expectations of making detective in 3-5 years, and will swap agencies to make that happen or burn out when their expectations aren't met. IMHO, a cop isn't worth the cost of his kit until he hits the 5 year mark. It takes that long to gain the experience and maturity that his sergeant can leave him be for a shift and not worry about him screwing up.
                    But this applies to pretty much everything. The job market ain't what it used to be, and no one has a job for a lifetime anymore(1-5 years max per job). It's not a surprise the same applies to cops. If you're looking for reasons look deeper, it has to do with how we have built the society, what we reward, and so forth.
                    Wisdom is personal

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Karri View Post
                      But this applies to pretty much everything. The job market ain't what it used to be, and no one has a job for a lifetime anymore(1-5 years max per job). It's not a surprise the same applies to cops. If you're looking for reasons look deeper, it has to do with how we have built the society, what we reward, and so forth.
                      Not true in the LE field.

                      The job and the compensation system is geared to career service.

                      There is no fear of being laid off, or your agency being bought out.

                      You hire on and don't screw up, you are assured a job until you choose to retire.
                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Karri View Post
                        But this applies to pretty much everything. The job market ain't what it used to be, and no one has a job for a lifetime anymore(1-5 years max per job). It's not a surprise the same applies to cops. If you're looking for reasons look deeper, it has to do with how we have built the society, what we reward, and so forth.
                        Agreed, a lot of the problem stems from our society.

                        The problem is that there are a few professions, like Doctors, Cops, and Engineers which simply cannot work on that basis. They have to be long-career or lifetime professions. Could you imagine an ER staffed with 1-5 year Doctors, with the Attendings having at most 6-8 years of experience? It would be a bloody nightmare. A night shift cop on the beat is in many ways similar to a night shift doctor in the ER. He has to deal with whatever comes through the door, he can't say no or pass it off. He will deal with everything from the routine to the insane, and occasionally things will get bloody or mind-numbingly stressful. And uniquely to the cop, on occasion the 'patient' will be trying to kill him or somebody else and he has to handle that too.....all to the satisfaction of an administration, public, and attorneys which will have months to review his actions.

                        That's what we're running into. And part of it is that problem, we see shortages of doctors and engineers as well. Another part is that being a Cop in the US used to be a respected profession. Years of derison and being blasted by everyone from the President to the pundit to the 1st year reporter has obliterated that.
                        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                          Exactly. We're not getting the military veterans we used to,
                          Because the military veterans are combat veterans and have done far more than their share, and they didn't get to b**** about it when their ranks got thinned out by injury and death.

                          "When the gong gets tough..." those still around whine about it, and yet millions of Americans have had to double and triple their own workload in order to maintain those corporate profit margins despite downsizing, and they have no one to complain to.

                          Time to suck it up and drive on, while being thankful that you still have a job in the first place.


                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Because the military veterans are combat veterans and have done far more than their share, and they didn't get to b**** about it when their ranks got thinned out by injury and death.


                            I know that storming San Juan Hill was rough, but times have changed.

                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            "When the gong gets tough..." those still around whine about it, and yet millions of Americans have had to double and triple their own workload in order to maintain those corporate profit margins despite downsizing, and they have no one to complain to.

                            Time to suck it up and drive on, while being thankful that you still have a job in the first place.
                            Yeah, the private sector sucks. But we're not talking about the private sector.

                            We're talking about the erosion of hiring and retention standards. The loss of experience and training.

                            I have a job because I haven't chosen to retire. I can literally walk away from my desk right now and never work again. I can retire faster than they can fire me. Be grateful that there are guys like me who enjoy the job enough to stick around. We are a rapidly declining breed. You cannot run a police agency effectively with only '20 and out' personnel.

                            Assuming you can hire anyone. Its not like the happy days when you were drilling recruits to face Kaiser Bill: there are fewer and fewer people who want to do the job. They prefer the corporate workload.
                            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                              [/FONT]

                              [FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]I know that storming San Juan Hill was rough, but times have changed.



                              Yeah, the private sector sucks. But we're not talking about the private sector.

                              We're talking about the erosion of hiring and retention standards. The loss of experience and training.

                              I have a job because I haven't chosen to retire. I can literally walk away from my desk right now and never work again. I can retire faster than they can fire me. Be grateful that there are guys like me who enjoy the job enough to stick around. We are a rapidly declining breed. You cannot run a police agency effectively with only '20 and out' personnel.

                              Assuming you can hire anyone. Its not like the happy days when you were drilling recruits to face Kaiser Bill: there are fewer and fewer people who want to do the job. They prefer the corporate workload.
                              Need a hanky?

                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                              Comment

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