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And Who Believes Russia is Not an Enemy?

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  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Nothing, as long as it is a committee chosen by the GOP.
    It's something, anyway, that you at least see the need for a white wash.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Massena View Post
      'Turning the election over' is not the issue. Interfering in the election is, and all of the US intelligence organizations agree that the Russians hacked and interfered in the election.
      How so? Produce the credible sources.
      My worst jump story:
      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
      No lie.

      ~
      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
        Good article. I especially liked this part: "Putin is not alone in thinking the way he does. Any successor is likely to have similar views. We have to deal with Russia as it is, not spin fantasies about what it would be like without Putin. We need to stand up for what the west is supposed to believe in free speech, the rule of law, democracy and defend those interests that are essential to our way of life. Since many Russians also hanker after free speech, the rule of law and democracy, we can afford to be firm on these ideals."

        Amen to that.

        Also, if Russia is not interfering in Western Countries democratic processes then I will be the first to apologize, but I think Russia is and it is a real nuisance. So stop it and then let's talk.
        From all I've read about "Russia's interference", which beside the hacking allegations included "oh so terrible Russia Today channel which mind controls naive poor little Western people", I have to say the Russians have been subjected to this kind of "interference" for many years and to an infinitely greater degree. I see this kind of complaints about Russian media having its own spin on Amerian events and thus interfering into its afairs as either brazenly hypocritical or, which is more likely, insanely myopic. Either you shut down your innumerable propaganda channels like RFE/RL (which has a big project on Crimea exclusively focused on all things negative there, real or imaginary), Russian version of Euronews TV, Russian versions of Western media websites, etc. So my answer is: get a grip. Take a deep breath, look at what you've been doing for decades yourself, and either stop your own propaganda to have a leg in this argument, or make a deal with the Russians to gag all media outlets criticising both countries - if it's even possible. Or, better, learn to live with the fact the are also media outlets which offer a non-mainstream narrative.
        www.histours.ru

        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
          How so? Produce the credible sources.
          Oh, never mind.
          My worst jump story:
          My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
          As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
          No lie.

          ~
          "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
          -2 Commando Jumpmaster

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
            From all I've read about "Russia's interference", which beside the hacking allegations included "oh so terrible Russia Today channel which mind controls naive poor little Western people", I have to say the Russians have been subjected to this kind of "interference" for many years and to an infinitely greater degree. I see this kind of complaints about Russian media having its own spin on Amerian events and thus interfering into its afairs as either brazenly hypocritical or, which is more likely, insanely myopic. Either you shut down your innumerable propaganda channels like RFE/RL (which has a big project on Crimea exclusively focused on all things negative there, real or imaginary), Russian version of Euronews TV, Russian versions of Western media websites, etc. So my answer is: get a grip. Take a deep breath, look at what you've been doing for decades yourself, and either stop your own propaganda to have a leg in this argument, or make a deal with the Russians to gag all media outlets criticising both countries - if it's even possible. Or, better, learn to live with the fact the are also media outlets which offer a non-mainstream narrative.
            I have no great objection to media outlets saying what ever they want, although fake news is a problem. The issue is did Russia hack into the DNC and strategically leak (through Wikileaks) information to help the Trump campaign? Did it collude with the Trump campaign? Did Russia systematically use fake news and twitter and social media to interfere in the free and fair election of another country?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
              It's something, anyway, that you at least see the need for a white wash.
              Nah. Its just political circus, same as the birther movement was for Bobo. No committee is going to settle it, nor will any 'facts' appear that will be accepted by both parties. It is just a method for the DNC to attack Trump.

              When they win the Oval office back, we'll do something similar.

              It is how the game is played. Bush stole the Florida vote, Bobo wasn't a citizen, Trump had Russian help. Every POTUS who doesn't win a Reagan-style landslide is going to have their win contested.

              You are taking this as a real issue, but the fact is that its just a political football.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                I have no great objection to media outlets saying what ever they want, although fake news is a problem. The issue is did Russia hack into the DNC and strategically leak (through Wikileaks) information to help the Trump campaign? Did it collude with the Trump campaign? Did Russia systematically use fake news and twitter and social media to interfere in the free and fair election of another country?
                They followed the example of Obama .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  Nah. Its just political circus, same as the birther movement was for Bobo. No committee is going to settle it, nor will any 'facts' appear that will be accepted by both parties. It is just a method for the DNC to attack Trump.

                  When they win the Oval office back, we'll do something similar.

                  It is how the game is played. Bush stole the Florida vote, Bobo wasn't a citizen, Trump had Russian help. Every POTUS who doesn't win a Reagan-style landslide is going to have their win contested.

                  You are taking this as a real issue, but the fact is that its just a political football.
                  I agree, it will never be resolved by anyone, right now it's just one excuse for a loss and will go away all by itself.
                  Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                    I agree, it will never be resolved by anyone, right now it's just one excuse for a loss and will go away all by itself.
                    And I don't agree. The United States of America has to get a hold of itself. It is no good to blame these obvious Russian attempts to destabilize American Democracy on normal partisan competition. That is not what is going on. Pinch yourselves. Get a grip on your democracy.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                      And I don't agree. The United States of America has to get a hold of itself. It is no good to blame these obvious Russian attempts to destabilize American Democracy on normal partisan competition. That is not what is going on. Pinch yourselves. Get a grip on your democracy.

                      Oh please, Russians don't mean squat here. Hillary set her self up as a goddess. Got smacked down as such. The demoscat machine got broke.

                      Good thing as well.
                      Credo quia absurdum.


                      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                      • Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                        Oh please, Russians don't mean squat here. Hillary set her self up as a goddess. Got smacked down as such. The demoscat machine got broke.

                        Good thing as well.
                        I don't know what to say, I'm worried about American Democracy. It seems like its in big trouble, but good luck, I hope you are right.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                          I don't know what to say, I'm worried about American Democracy. It seems like its in big trouble, but good luck, I hope you are right.
                          Its not in trouble.

                          Keep in mind that the media is built around drama. The bulk of American voters have long ago lost interest in the election (nearly half of registered voters didn't bother to vote, and even more didn't bother to register at all).
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            Its not in trouble.

                            Keep in mind that the media is built around drama. The bulk of American voters have long ago lost interest in the election (nearly half of registered voters didn't bother to vote, and even more didn't bother to register at all).
                            We'll see.

                            It seems Monty - Python-ish now

                            Is
                            Is not
                            Is
                            Is not

                            That's not debate that's mere contradiction

                            No it isn't
                            Yes it is

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                            • That is how US politics works. Remember the birther issue? Benghazi will dog Hillabest forever.

                              Political issues are never resolved because the accusers want an issue, not resolution.
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                              Comment

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