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  • Originally posted by Massena View Post
    You don't have to be in open warfare to be an enemy.

    Do you believe what the Russians did during the last election was 'benign'?
    Have any proof of the Russians turning the election over?
    My worst jump story:
    My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
    As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
    No lie.

    ~
    "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
    -2 Commando Jumpmaster

    Comment


    • Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
      Why wasn't CNN crying about Hillary Clinton's uranium deal if Russia is such a dangerous enemy? You people have gone off the deep end.
      It's only okay when they do it.
      My worst jump story:
      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
      No lie.

      ~
      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Massena View Post
        Yes-annihilation is a Russian principle of war, not a US one.


        You have a rather jaundiced view of history, don't you.

        The only good Indians I ever saw were dead - Lt Gen Philip Sheridan, CO Dept of the Missouri

        Didn't quite annihilate the Plains Indians, but it wasn't for lack of trying, was it. As it was, their numbers were greatly reduced through starvation and almost constant warfare. In effect, Gen Sheridan -- in his capacity as commanding officer Dept of the Missouri -- wasn't merely offering a personal opinion, but was declaring his command's standing orders, and by extension, the policy of the United States.

        Compare that to the Missouri governor's outright order to kill or forcibly expel all Mormons from his state's territory in 1838.

        Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operation with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary . . . .

        Missouri Governor Lilburn W. Boggs' Order of Extermination, Missouri Executive Order Number 44, courtesy of Quaqua-dot-org, 27 Oct 1838
        By comparison, Pres Andrew Jackson's forced removal of the Cherokee from Georgia to contemporary Oklahoma was a mere ethnic cleansing.

        Curiously, some argue that Lt Gen William Tecumseh Sherman's campaign to eviscerate the Confederacy's ability to prosecute war by attacking her soft economic underbelly ("March Through Georgia") was inspired by a Russian, specifically a former Don Cossack colonel: John Basil Turchin, Brig Gen USA, aka Ivan Vasilyevich Turchaninov, Col Imperial Russian Army. While occupying Athens AL in 1862, his command looted the town, allegedly in response to Confederate guerilla operations in the area. Indeed, none other than Pres Lincoln promoted Turchin from Col to Brig Gen during his court-martial, such was his approval of the employment of the "Muscovite custom." Much has been said of him in ACG's Civil War forum.

        And I haven't even raised Fat Man and Little Boy yet. Undeniably the United States has had some experience at exterminations or attempted exterminations, as well as some of the more brutal aspects of warfare. So please, climb down from you pedestal already.

        And by the way, don't be such a bigot as to presume that brutal warfare is an exclusively Russian trait. I give you fair warning now, if you insist on opening that can of worms I'll lay into you like the Wrath of God.

        And herein lies my dilemma: while Trump's partisans often come across as if history is written in pencil, Hillary's partisans act like they're wielding the eraser. They're two sides of the same rotten coin. With nonsense like that, I'm failing to see how either candidate would have been different from the other. They're all manifestly . . . . "factually challenged."
        Last edited by slick_miester; 06 Apr 17, 14:44.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
          It makes me nervous too, that's why it's neccessary to get to the bottom of it and let the facts speak for itself. Wanting to get the facts out isn't the same as blaming Russia for Hillary's loss.
          The Russians were not an issue until the Hillabeast lost. Instead of looking very hard at the real reasons they lost, the DNC is recycling the 'stab in the back' scenario for 2016, with Russians instead of the Jews.

          Trump won electorally by a sizeable margin; the Hillabeast was never in the lead on the fateful night. But after months of gleeful predictions by biased media, it felt like the DNC were robbed.

          Their trouble was they started believing their own press releases. The Hillabeast created her own defeat; her and her teams' assumptions did them in.

          This thing will drag on all year, and finally fizzle out, much like Bobo's birth certificate.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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          • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            ...The Russians were not an issue until the Hillabeast lost...
            The Russians were involved in that loss and, maybe, a few Republicans.
            .

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              The Russians were not an issue until the Hillabeast lost. Instead of looking very hard at the real reasons they lost, the DNC is recycling the 'stab in the back' scenario for 2016, with Russians instead of the Jews.

              Trump won electorally by a sizeable margin; the Hillabeast was never in the lead on the fateful night. But after months of gleeful predictions by biased media, it felt like the DNC were robbed.

              Their trouble was they started believing their own press releases. The Hillabeast created her own defeat; her and her teams' assumptions did them in.

              This thing will drag on all year, and finally fizzle out, much like Bobo's birth certificate.
              Yeah, election night I went to bed early and depressed because I thought the fix was in and I'd wake up to prez hell hag.

              Had a Champagne breakfast the next morning.
              Credo quia absurdum.


              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                It's not what they accomplished, it's what they tried to accomplish. Only Israel is allowed to meddle in US politics.
                Which so far looks to have been airing the 'dirty laundry' of Hillary and the DNC, which should not have occurred or been hidden.

                I'm wondering how much of this "Trump and "the Russians" "is smoke and mirrors to draw away from Hillary and the PRChinese ... ???

                Comment


                • Russia became the enemy of the Left the second it stopped being on the Left. We're seeing that here today.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    The Russians were not an issue until the Hillabeast lost. Instead of looking very hard at the real reasons they lost, the DNC is recycling the 'stab in the back' scenario for 2016, with Russians instead of the Jews.

                    Trump won electorally by a sizeable margin; the Hillabeast was never in the lead on the fateful night. But after months of gleeful predictions by biased media, it felt like the DNC were robbed.

                    Their trouble was they started believing their own press releases. The Hillabeast created her own defeat; her and her teams' assumptions did them in.

                    This thing will drag on all year, and finally fizzle out, much like Bobo's birth certificate.

                    That sounds like you have made a judgement already, without all the facts known yet. I don't care about Hillary and I agree she was a poor campaigner and uninspiring. So what? All I'm saying is get the facts out and then let the chips fall where they may. What's wrong with that?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Massena View Post
                      From your link, QUOTE:
                      The Washington Post, which first reported the meeting, reported that the UAE wanted to weaken the alliance between Russia and Iran, a move that would likely "require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions." NBC News quoted an intelligence source saying the Seychelles meeting focused on U.S. policy in the Middle East.
                      ~~~~~~~~
                      Sounds worth discussing to me, especially since the BHO Admin. basically kissed Iran's rear with the deal Barry gave them. BTW, in many ways Iran is a greater threat to USA interests than Putin/Russia.
                      ~~~~~~~~
                      QUOTE: ...
                      ...
                      Topic: This is disputed. The White House says Kushner was acting as an adviser to President-elect Trump during the transition period and was a "conduit" to world leaders until Trump named a Secretary of State. The bank says Gorkov met with Kushner as he was meeting with banking and business officials worldwide to discuss a new strategic plan for the financially troubled bank.
                      ...
                      If Kushner and Gorkov discussed sanctions, their meeting would raise the prospect that Trump would lift the sanctions, a move he said during the campaign that he would consider.
                      There is no indication that Kushner and Gorkov discussed sanctions. Several Russian banks - but not VEB - have been lobbying to lift or ease the sanctions since they were imposed.
                      After the meeting was reported, Kushner volunteered to speak to Congressional committees that are investigating Russia's election activities and any ties between Trump associates and the Kremlin.
                      ~~~~~~~~~
                      Talking is better than not talking and looks like no deals or commitments are involved here.
                      ~~~~~~~~~
                      The meeting
                      Date: Early 2013
                      Place: New York City
                      Topic: While Page was running his energy-consulting business, he met Podobnyy at an energy symposium in New York City.

                      Thinking Podobnyy worked for Russia's U.N. mission, Page maintained contact with him, exchanging emails about the energy business and occasionally meeting, according to court records. At one meeting, Carter gave Podobnyy documents about the energy business.
                      Podobnyy was trying to cultivate Carter - and others in New York City - as an intelligence source for information about energy development and U.S. sanctions against Russia, according to court records.
                      ...
                      Page is one of four former Trump campaign associates the FBI is investigating for contacts with Russians known to U.S. intelligence. While Page's interactions with Podobnyy are a clear example of contact with a Russian spy, Page said in a statement that he believed Podobnyy was"a junior attaché at the Permanent Mission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations."
                      In addition, the contact occurred three years before Page became associated with the Trump campaign - and association that both Page and Trump have minimized.
                      Page said in a statement that he gave Podobnyy "nothing more than a few samples" from detailed lectures he gave at New York University for a course about energy markets and politics.
                      ...
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Sounds legit and a reach far-back to me. More tempest in a teacup here.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                        Have any proof of the Russians turning the election over?
                        'Turning the election over' is not the issue. Interfering in the election is, and all of the US intelligence organizations agree that the Russians hacked and interfered in the election.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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                        • Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                          That sounds like you have made a judgement already, without all the facts known yet. I don't care about Hillary and I agree she was a poor campaigner and uninspiring. So what? All I'm saying is get the facts out and then let the chips fall where they may. What's wrong with that?
                          Nothing, as long as it is a committee chosen by the GOP.

                          The facts are that there's no proof, and the situation is so hopelessly muddled by now that any published results will be disbelieved by one party or the other.

                          For that, the bulk of the voters simply do not care.

                          This is just politics, nothing more. The facts are that the Hillabeast's defeat was caused by obvious (in retrospect) poor choices made in her campaign, and some shrewd moves made by Trump's campaign.

                          Its political circus. The Dems know that the GOP can't prove a negative, so they'll keep bleating about the Russians and claiming significance in trivia until something better comes along.

                          Its how things are done here.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                            Then why would you characterize Russia as our "enemy"? Enemy is a pretty loaded word. If I'm faced with an enemy, my inclination is to eliminate that enemy -- be any means necessary. That's what you do to enemies: you kill them. If Russia is our enemy, then we have no choice but to seriously consider the remedy of war, and to plan accordingly. Surely you can appreciate the enormity of such a strategic imperative.

                            If, on the other hand, Russia is to be viewed not as an enemy, but as a rival, then our strategic choices multiply many times over. Our rivalry can be blunted, co-opted, perhaps even turned into a friendship with enough time and clever thinking and wily diplomacy. Al Qaeda is an enemy, incapable of tolerable coexistence. Russia is a rival, and the US relationship with Russia will be fraught with many ups and downs, but there exists a genuine and undeniable potential for a more fruitful relationship in the not too distant future. That's the difference between "enemy" and "rival," and one that you should have acknowledged up front when you launched this thread. Failing to do so brings us into the realm of hyperbole and histrionics. Can't speak for you, but of that I've had more than my fill.
                            You might want to check this article in the Guardian. While I don't agree with some of its points, it offers a very realistic view of the situation with the countries bilateral relations, which stands in stark contrast with diatribes of ideologically overpumped zealots you can read all over the MSM and on this forum.
                            www.histours.ru

                            Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                            • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                              You might want to check this article in the Guardian. While I don't agree with some of its points, it offers a very realistic view of the situation with the countries bilateral relations, which stands in stark contrast with diatribes of ideologically overpumped zealots you can read all over the MSM and on this forum.
                              Good article. I especially liked this part: "Putin is not alone in thinking the way he does. Any successor is likely to have similar views. We have to deal with Russia as it is, not spin fantasies about what it would be like without Putin. We need to stand up for what the west is supposed to believe in – free speech, the rule of law, democracy – and defend those interests that are essential to our way of life. Since many Russians also hanker after free speech, the rule of law and democracy, we can afford to be firm on these ideals."

                              Amen to that.

                              Also, if Russia is not interfering in Western Countries democratic processes then I will be the first to apologize, but I think Russia is and it is a real nuisance. So stop it and then let's talk.

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                              • Had dinner with the parents. My folks have been watching the news and now they are talking of Assad the "dictator" and what not. I reminded that all over Syria there are dirty criminal Muslims enslaving Christian women, raping Christian women. All over Syria brutal Muslims are doing the worst things to all sorts of Innocent people...and that is the hard truth. OTOH the Syrian Arab Army includes honorable Muslims and Christians teaming to fight ISIL. This is something to keep in mind if folks want to see Assad removed... If Assad is removed its my hope that friendship among interfaith as it is now in Gov held areas of Syria continues all over Syria. If Assad is thrown out we need to have a new gov that would jail or worse to any Syrian who exhibits supremacist views and my concern is that an AQ/ISIL group takes over Syria if Assad is ousted.
                                Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                                Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                                George S Patton

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