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  • This day in history

    On March 26, 1953, Jonas Salk announced the invention of his polio vaccine. Unlike the medical researchers of today, Salk never actually patented the vaccine, a decision which Forbes estimates cost him roughly $7 billion. Salk decided that the people owned the patent, not him, in part due to the fact that it was their millions through the March of Dimes that paid for its development. "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?" Salk asked.
    This is why we will never get a handle on healthcare cost, it used to be a calling, now it is largely an hedge fund profiteering vehicle.
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
    On March 26, 1953, Jonas Salk announced the invention of his polio vaccine. Unlike the medical researchers of today, Salk never actually patented the vaccine, a decision which Forbes estimates cost him roughly $7 billion. Salk decided that the people owned the patent, not him, in part due to the fact that it was their millions through the March of Dimes that paid for its development. "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?" Salk asked.
    This is why we will never get a handle on healthcare cost, it used to be a calling, now it is largely an hedge fund profiteering vehicle.
    A noble man indeed

    Today the big Pharmaceuticals control the release of life saving drugs

    Its a business not a calling....
    http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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    • #3
      My wife's step father was diagnosed with polio just after they started adult vaccination over here. He spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair, There's bound to always be someone these things come just too late for but he did feel bitter about it.

      However it isn't just big pharma that slows matters up - the regularity and testing regime has got so complex that this is now a major blocking factor. Understandably after things like thalidomide they are extra cautious but for drugs etc that are for critical conditions (rather than for convenience as was thalidomide) one wonders if we are not too risk averse.
      Last edited by MarkV; 26 Mar 17, 15:26.
      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        On March 26, 1953, Jonas Salk announced the invention of his polio vaccine. Unlike the medical researchers of today, Salk never actually patented the vaccine, a decision which Forbes estimates cost him roughly $7 billion. Salk decided that the people owned the patent, not him, in part due to the fact that it was their millions through the March of Dimes that paid for its development. "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?" Salk asked.
        This is why we will never get a handle on healthcare cost, it used to be a calling, now it is largely an hedge fund profiteering vehicle.
        That would be the vaccine which later caused many cases of polio instead of preventing them because it was an attenuated live virus vaccine, and which cost the company an enormous amount of money in lawsuits and damages.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          That would be the vaccine which later caused many cases of polio instead of preventing them because it was an attenuated live virus vaccine, and which cost the company an enormous amount of money in lawsuits and damages.
          You are such a ray of sunshine
          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            That would be the vaccine which later caused many cases of polio instead of preventing them because it was an attenuated live virus vaccine, and which cost the company an enormous amount of money in lawsuits and damages.
            Can we have some evidence please?

            In fact the Salk Virus was the inactivated virus but this was the more difficult to administer as it needed injection. Also it didn't persist in immunity in all cases but given to kids (like me) stopped the outbreaks in their tracks. The later attenuated live virus could be given orally and many who had originally been given the Salk virus were given this later just in case the Salk hadn't persisted. This is what cost the extra but it was generally agreed that it was worth getting the Salk out there first as it stopped the outbreak and many kids survived well and fit who otherwise would not. I have not heard of the Salk virus or the live attenuated virus actually causing polio - evidence please or is it a case of memory malfunction? AFAIAC Salk was great man.
            Last edited by MarkV; 26 Mar 17, 20:18.
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MarkV View Post
              Can we have some evidence please?

              In fact the Salk Virus was the inactivated virus but this was the more difficult to administer as it needed injection. Also it didn't persist in immunity in all cases but given to kids (like me) stopped the outbreaks in their tracks. The later attenuated live virus could be given orally and many who had originally been given the Salk virus were given this later just in case the Salk hadn't persisted. This is what cost the extra but it was generally agreed that it was worth getting the Salk out there first as it stopped the outbreak and many kids survived well and fit who otherwise would not. I have not heard of the Salk virus or the live attenuated virus actually causing polio - evidence please or is it a case of memory malfunction? AFAIAC Salk was great man.

              You and I are old enough to have seen the pre polio vaccine era, I much prefer the post polio era.
              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                You are such a ray of sunshine
                No...just someone who knows history, and who was engaged to the daughter of the VP for Sales and Promotion for the company that produced Salk's vaccine when the polio incidents took place. I remember discussing it with him on numerous occasions, and he was quite truthful about the origin of the problem - attenuated live virus versus a killed virus as used later.

                History is what it is, not what we wish it were. The current trend by those like yourself is to whitewash history and remember only the parts you like, which is neither accurate nor honest.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally Posted by MarkV
                  Can we have some evidence please?
                  Use the internet you are currently on and do a little research for a change, instead of wanting history spoon fed to you by others.

                  Here’s that little detail, though. The poliovirus that Dr. Salk killed with formalin, or formaldehyde, were not always killed; they sometimes only appeared to be killed.
                  Live poliovirus, which was put in an injectable vaccine, would appear to be inactivated right after it was made, but sometimes it would ‘resurrect’ in the vial… In essence, the formaldehyde did not kill off all the polioviruses in these vaccines, which led to live polio viruses being injected. As a result, more people developed paralysis from the vaccine in 1955 than would have developed it from a wild, normal natural poliovirus.3
                  http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/20...ccine-tragedy/

                  This took ten seconds to locate. Now you look.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Use the internet you are currently on and do a little research for a change, instead of wanting history spoon fed to you by others.

                    http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/20...ccine-tragedy/

                    This took ten seconds to locate. Now you look.
                    We live without fear of polio in most of the world today. I suppose that makes you unhappy too.
                    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wolfe Tone View Post
                      A noble man indeed

                      Today the big Pharmaceuticals control the release of life saving drugs

                      Its a business not a calling....
                      It can cost billions of dollars to bring a drug to the market nowadays. Also, there is only a limited time that the pharmaceuticals can hold the patente, this time includes a good proportion of the development time.

                      When you consider the amount of drugs that never see the light of day, you'd need very deep pockets to do it for any other reasons than business.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JFKvsNixon View Post
                        It can cost billions of dollars to bring a drug to the market nowadays. Also, there is only a limited time that the pharmaceuticals can hold the patente, this time includes a good proportion of the development time.

                        When you consider the amount of drugs that never see the light of day, you'd need very deep pockets to do it for any other reasons than business.
                        Does that justify raising cost of medicine that's already been on the market for decades or on sale in other country's for a fraction of what it sells for here?
                        It's all bull chips.
                        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                          Does that justify raising cost of medicine that's already been on the market for decades or on sale in other country's for a fraction of what it sells for here?
                          It's all bull chips.
                          I never suggested that it did, although after the drug loses it's patent it's cost should drop dramatically.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JFKvsNixon View Post
                            I never suggested that it did, although after the drug loses it's patent it's cost should drop dramatically.
                            That is what used to happen, but that was before hedgefund managers started buying and running pharmaceutical companies.
                            When we see American pharmaceutical companies selling drugs abroad for a fraction of what they sell them in the US for, or jacking up the cost of drugs whose patents have expired what conclusions do we draw?
                            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I remember that polio cure at the time. My mom took me down to the grocery store where you went through the check out lines with all the other kids and had to eat a sugar cube they gave you from an aluminum tray...

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