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  • #16
    Originally posted by armor11 View Post
    The legislation is not a failure, you just think it is.

    But a big part of the reasons that it has more issues than it should is because the Republican party has been attempting, on purely ideological grounds, to eviscerate the entire bill from day one. And they have been successful at removing some key foundations that were designed to make it more cost effective and successful.

    Now, in spite of the Republican party, the ACA has come to the rescue of tens millions of Americans. Tens of millions. That means nothing to you, I know, but it means a whole lot to millions of other Americans that understand that there is a serious problem with the way healthcare was delivered before the ACA. Healthcare before the ACA was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more dysfunctional than healthcare after the ACA.

    But I wouldn't expect the Republican party to give a crap about healthcare. They don't give a crap about anything except maintaining their power base. The power to do nothing.


    Hahaha.
    It didn't fail? Exactly what laws were the republicans able to pass that harmed obamacare? Don't forget, BO was president and the law was written solely by dems.

    Others see it as a failure.

    Come November, the grim trudge across the increasingly barren Obamacare landscape begins anew. Illinois consumers likely face staggering price hikes for individual insurance policies. Some types of plans could cost an average of 43 percent to 55 percent more. Ditto across the country: A first tranche of states approved 2017 rates with similarly cardiac-arrest-inducing premium increases.


    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...909-story.html

    Even Hillary recognized it was broken.

    Hillary Clinton promised to fix problems with Obamacare that led to average rate hikes of 25% next year for mid-level health plans before subsidies.
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/politi...htmlstory.html

    The fact that the costs have gone up at all, let alone by the above amounts demonstrates "failure". We were promised a premium reduction of $2500 as I recall.
    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
      Hahaha.
      It didn't fail? Exactly what laws were the republicans able to pass that harmed obamacare? Don't forget, BO was president and the law was written solely by dems.

      Others see it as a failure.

      Come November, the grim trudge across the increasingly barren Obamacare landscape begins anew. Illinois consumers likely face staggering price hikes for individual insurance policies. Some types of plans could cost an average of 43 percent to 55 percent more. Ditto across the country: A first tranche of states approved 2017 rates with similarly cardiac-arrest-inducing premium increases.


      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...909-story.html

      Even Hillary recognized it was broken.

      Hillary Clinton promised to fix problems with Obamacare that led to average rate hikes of 25% next year for mid-level health plans before subsidies.
      http://www.latimes.com/nation/politi...htmlstory.html

      The fact that the costs have gone up at all, let alone by the above amounts demonstrates "failure". We were promised a premium reduction of $2500 as I recall.
      Wrong.

      http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/hcr_amendments/

      In a bid to pick off a couple centralist GOP members over 160+ GOP amendments and planks were adopted.

      The bill approved by Sen. Christopher Dodd’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee, for instance, included 161 amendments authored by Republicans. Only 49 Republican amendments were rejected out of 210 considered.
      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
      “To talk of many things:
      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
      Of cabbages—and kings—
      And why the sea is boiling hot—
      And whether pigs have wings.”
      ― Lewis Carroll

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        Wrong.

        http://www.salon.com/2010/02/23/hcr_amendments/

        In a bid to pick off a couple centralist GOP members over 160+ GOP amendments and planks were adopted.
        Sorry, The Salon item is not saying the GOP was part of the writing of the ACA.
        The law was written by the dems.
        Adopting things the GOP might like is not in the least proof that I was "Wrong".
        Even your own link doesn't claim that the GOP wrote the ACA so please explain how it shows my statement was "wrong".

        The acceptance or rejection of anything in the law was solely the work of the dems. The GOP did not write the law it was the work of the dems.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #19
          I wonder come the end of this year what Sanders will be saying... assuming Obamacare is still in place... about the ACA when as much as half the US doesn't have a health insurance plan available on the market because their single provider quit Obamacare due to losses.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
            It didn't fail?
            Nope.

            Still working. And providing healthcare insurance to tens of millions of people (including children) that wouldn't have access to healthcare without it. That's why Republicans are scared s*tless about repealing it.

            Exactly what laws were the republicans able to pass that harmed obamacare?
            The biggest impediment occurred at the state level where Republican controlled legislatures refused to expand Medicare. That ensured that many poor sick people were forced onto the ACA, driving up premiums.

            Others see it as a failure.
            That's because they listen to fake news.

            Even Hillary recognized it was broken.
            Nope, not "broken," just needing some tuning.

            The fact that the costs have gone up at all, let alone by the above amounts demonstrates "failure". We were promised a premium reduction of $2500 as I recall.
            Bullcrap. The cost of medical services in general and insurance costs in particular have been rising every year for decades. That was one of the main drivers for the ACA. The exponential rise of medical costs were threatening to literally bankrupt the country. Of course, tens of thousands of ordinary citizens were already bankrupt due to the cost of their medical care. Millions were hanging on by their teeth, or just...dying.

            Now, the ACA can't fix *all* the problems with our healthcare system. You know, it's complicated. Just ask the Chump. That is, unless you just go with the single payer system. It's EZ-PZ, would reduce costs and ensure everyone has access to quality healthcare. Just like all the other modern industrialized nations do it.

            Of course, the Republicans won't hear of "single payer" because it doesn't match their value system. Considering that they are currently supporting a self proclaimed predator that has no respect for traditional family values and is a pathological liar tells you everything you need to know about what passes for "values" in the current Republican brain.
            "I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even wait. You can do anything... Grab them by the [redacted]. You can do anything."
            -The President of the United States of America.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by armor11 View Post
              So a fundamental aspect of the ACA was to ensure that everyone could get health insurance. If everyone has it, then the costs will go down, or at least go up more slowly. That's the way insurance works. It's no different than the requirement for automobile insurance that is required by, I'm guessing, every state in the union.
              You mean if everyone is FORCED to purchase it right.
              Auto insurance is only required if you have a car and operate it on the public roads. Even than there are a number of agencies that you can buy from across state lines and with different coverage amounts and items. Just like home owners/renters insurance you get to pick and choose what you want covered. Not so much with the PPACA.


              Originally posted by armor11 View Post
              The ACA also removed the burden of insurance for young adults that are just trying to get their feet set on a career path by allowing them to stay on their parents health plans until age 26. Again, that worked like a charm.
              Could you point to the exact law that made it illegal for parents to pay the insurance for their 26 year old child, or 28 year old, 30, 50?
              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                You mean if everyone is FORCED to purchase it right.
                Auto insurance is only required if you have a car and operate it on the public roads. Even than there are a number of agencies that you can buy from across state lines and with different coverage amounts and items. Just like home owners/renters insurance you get to pick and choose what you want covered. Not so much with the PPACA.




                Could you point to the exact law that made it illegal for parents to pay the insurance for their 26 year old child, or 28 year old, 30, 50?
                I've given too much rep in the past 24 hours, so you'll have to wait, but ...

                ... yeah, "Health Insurance" should be like all other insurance, assorted plans available across State-lines and areas of coverage variable to the customer's needs. Wife is 60 and I'm 66 with a vasectomey, odds are we don't need materniety coverage, as no more "kids" likely in our future.


                Also, were I to pay ca$h out of pocket, my PCP will charge less for an office visit than if I use my Medical Insurance which averages in the other "un-healthies" with the group coverage.

                BTW, how is ACA such a great deal when so many of the lower annual income get hit with a penalty tax for not having Health Coverage Insurance ??? !!!
                TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                Comment


                • #23
                  Armor is ignoring the truths about Obamacare

                  36% of all counties in the US right now have one insurance provider for Obamacare plans.

                  Pinal County in Arizona almost had none this year, and next year anything up to about a third of all counties in the US will not have a provider to sell them an Obamacare plan.

                  Costs of plans have risen anywhere from about 75% to 300%+ since the marketplaces have opened. Where's that "save you $2500 a year" Obama promised?

                  Blue Cross is the largest company losing on Obamacare. They're at about $950 million right now and looking to be over a billion in losses on Obamacare plans by the end of the year. They're pulling out of the program for the most part next year.
                  Almost all providers have experienced large losses on Obamacare plans.

                  The expanded Medicare plans are about to run into a brick wall too. The federal subsidies for these are set to end starting next year. After that, the states will either have to drop their coverage or massively raise taxes. Guess which one they'll do and it isn't raise taxes.

                  What happens to someone who can't buy health insurance because it isn't even offered where they live and they are facing getting hit with a big tax penalty for not having coverage? Want to bet they'll be p!$$ed at the Democrats for that too?

                  Obamacare is a disaster. It's in a death spiral of decreasing coverage and increasing plan costs with no way to cover the difference. It's doomed.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                    I've given too much rep in the past 24 hours, so you'll have to wait, but ...

                    Got him for you.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by armor11 View Post
                      Nope.

                      Still working. And providing healthcare insurance to tens of millions of people (including children) that wouldn't have access to healthcare without it. That's why Republicans are scared s*tless about repealing it.


                      The biggest impediment occurred at the state level where Republican controlled legislatures refused to expand Medicare. That ensured that many poor sick people were forced onto the ACA, driving up premiums.


                      That's because they listen to fake news.


                      Nope, not "broken," just needing some tuning.


                      Bullcrap. The cost of medical services in general and insurance costs in particular have been rising every year for decades. That was one of the main drivers for the ACA. The exponential rise of medical costs were threatening to literally bankrupt the country. Of course, tens of thousands of ordinary citizens were already bankrupt due to the cost of their medical care. Millions were hanging on by their teeth, or just...dying.

                      Now, the ACA can't fix *all* the problems with our healthcare system. You know, it's complicated. Just ask the Chump. That is, unless you just go with the single payer system. It's EZ-PZ, would reduce costs and ensure everyone has access to quality healthcare. Just like all the other modern industrialized nations do it.

                      Of course, the Republicans won't hear of "single payer" because it doesn't match their value system. Considering that they are currently supporting a self proclaimed predator that has no respect for traditional family values and is a pathological liar tells you everything you need to know about what passes for "values" in the current Republican brain.



                      So now that you are blaming the state legislatures, you are acknowledging that there are no laws the republicans have passed to harm the ACA. Rather, the problems with the ACA lay with the drafters.

                      Medicare is a Federal program and the funding for it is controlled by the Feds, not the states. So your attempt to blame republicans for failing to "expand" the program at state level is weak to nonsense. It also doesn't explain why the ACA is failing in dem controlled states.
                      The dems who drafted the law knew of this problem and ignored it. They screwed up.

                      The fact that medical costs were rising doesn't excuse the lies that formed the basis of the program. Obama knew of the rising costs, and still promised a reduction in our premiums.

                      The plan was doomed because it relies on young people to buy insurance that they don't feel they need and to over pay for that insurance to subsidize the care for the people who need it.

                      Your rants about republicans aren't relevant, except to expose how weak your point is.
                      Last edited by Cambronnne; 03 Mar 17, 11:38.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                        You mean if everyone is FORCED to purchase it right.
                        Auto insurance is only required if you have a car and operate it on the public roads. Even than there are a number of agencies that you can buy from across state lines and with different coverage amounts and items. Just like home owners/renters insurance you get to pick and choose what you want covered. Not so much with the PPACA.




                        Could you point to the exact law that made it illegal for parents to pay the insurance for their 26 year old child, or 28 year old, 30, 50?


                        Excellent point.
                        Those who argue it is just like auto insurance demonstrate a lack of understanding about health and auto insurance.


                        If auto insurance allowed us to buy it only after a claim arose, no one would be stupid enough to pay for auto insurance before that claim arose.
                        Except maybe the imaginary people the dems thought would willingly pay for health insurance that they didn't need.
                        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The problem with the ACA is two fold:

                          First, it stands normal actuary practice for insurance on its head. It provides one-size-fits-all policies that raise costs by including as standard features many potential buyers don't want, while leaving out other features they might want. That limits the market and raises the cost of a policy unnecessarily.
                          It also requires that all policies sell for the same price regardless of the health or other risk factors of the buyer. This is akin to forcing insurers to sell and auto insurance policy with standard features to anyone regardless of risk. So, the repeat drunk driver, the person with a dozen accidents, and the person with a sheath of tickets get the same policy price as that of someone who only drives occasionally and hasn't had an accident or other issue.
                          The barring of considering pervious or current health conditions, gender, age, or other normal health factors in the cost of a policy greatly raise the costs again. That makes these policies unattractive to those who are healthy and probably won't use their coverage much or at all.

                          The second factor is Obamacare assumes, as Progressives normally do, that people will act altruistically. That is, they will buy a policy because "It's the right thing to do..." The "tax" penalty was designed as an additional incentive. Yet, people often forewent buying a policy, particularly the young and healthy on which Obamacare was staking its success, because of the cost, lack of personal need, and that the penalty was a far cheaper alternative. That is, people acted selfishly instead of altruistically... Like human nature has for a gazillion years!

                          Add in that you could buy into the program almost whenever meant you could wait until you needed insurance to get insurance.

                          Topping all that off, Obamacare promised the states and insurers that any losses would be covered by a group fund and federal money. When that became a bottomless pit and the money wasn't there, the insurers quit in droves to avoid losses. The states are going to be next.

                          This is what happens when idiots like Nancy Pelosi design a health insurance program. They know nothing of math, statistics, economics, sociology, accounting, or anything else that might actually give them a useful understanding of what they're doing. Instead, they go on wishful thinking and desired outcomes and then wonder why their program is such a disaster.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Here is a nice video on why Sanders should not be allowed to represent the Democratic party again. He simply is not well informed.

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdt6LwJuNvM
                            We hunt the hunters

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