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  • Talk about tough immigration laws here,

    I found this article today and was inspired to ask forum members from around the world to share their nations immigration policies.
    I'll kick off with this

    As recent headlines have shown, obtaining Swiss citizenship is far from easy. The Local takes you through the quirks of the naturalization process.
    1. Switzerland has two processes for obtaining Swiss citizenship. Ordinary (or regular) naturalization is the one most people go through; facilitated (or simplified) naturalization is a shorter and less complicated process usually open to the foreign spouses and children of Swiss citizens. On February 12th the Swiss will vote on whether third generation foreigners should be allowed facilitated naturalization. According to official statistics just under a quarter of the 40,689 naturalizations in 2015 were facilitated.

    2. There’s more than one set of requirements. To obtain regular naturalization a foreigner must meet the requirements laid out by three levels of government: the commune, the canton and the Confederation. Federal rules are straightforward, to a point: the applicant must have lived in Switzerland for 12 years (less if you spent your adolescence here), abide by Swiss law and order, pose no threat to the country, be familiar with Swiss customs and (here’s where it gets subjective) be well integrated. It’s usually down to the cantons and communes to tell federal authorities how integrated they think an applicant is.

    3. How long you’ve lived in your canton is a big factor. You may have lived 12 years in Switzerland but how long have you lived in your current place of residence? Don’t expect to move canton (or even commune) and then apply for citizenship – every canton has its own rules on this but all expect you to have lived in the area for a certain length of time. While cantons including Geneva and Bern only require two years’ residency, some require much longer, with St Gallen stipulating eight years and Uri a whopping ten uninterrupted years’ residency. (Check your canton’s requirements here)

    4. Cantonal and communal rules vary considerably. Each canton has different requirements (look up yours here), usually centring around how integrated you are in the community you live in. Do you speak the local language to a decent level (and could you pass a test to prove it)? Do you have Swiss friends and work colleagues who deem you part of the community? Do you know a thing or two about the local area? Are you down with Swiss traditions, politics and history? Are you financially solvent?

    5. Local residents can have a say. Most cantons and/or communes require you to face an interview to prove your integration and knowledge of Switzerland where you could be quizzed on anything from the number of lakes in your canton to which days are public holidays and the names of local traditions and festivals. In some cases a communal residents’ committee gathers to vote on your application, so it pays to keep in with the locals – famously, a Dutch woman was recently turned down by her community for campaigning against cowbells.

    6. It takes a while. The length of the process varies depending on where you live, but expect several years. The canton of Vaud quotes two and a half years as a ballpark. And don’t think you can move during the process or you may end up having to start all over again.
    7. It can be costly. Since there are three levels of authority, there are three different fees to pay. While the Confederation only requires 50-150 francs, costs set out by the cantons and communes can be much higher. The canton of Vaud requires 350 francs and Zurich 500 francs, but others demand far more. Geneva’s basic rate for an adult application is 920 francs, but it goes up the more you earn. If your salary is over 120,000 francs you’re looking at a 3,680 franc fee – and that’s just for the canton. You’ve still got to add the commune’s fees – and all this with the chance that you could be turned down, as one long-term American resident was in 2014.

    8. Your likelihood of success may depend on where you live. According to the Tages Anzeiger Western Switzerland is more generous with naturalizations than elsewhere. Official statistics show that Zurich naturalized the most people in 2015 (9,607), but it also has the biggest population, of 1.5 million. The canton of Geneva, population nearly half a million, naturalized 6,093 people last year, despite having a third of the population of Zurich and half the population of Bern, where only 2,587 people obtained citizenship.
    http://www.thelocal.ch/20170119/eigh...ss-citizenship
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

  • #2
    When I was in Bahrain with the Navy I remember seeing their requirements. 25 years unbroken residency in the country if not of Arabic decent and a Muslim. 12 years if you are Arab and Muslim (both). Oh, you couldn't be Jewish either.

    Comment


    • #3
      I well remember a good friend of mine having made a sizeable fortune in the property development business emigrating to BC Canada and the incredible hoops he had to jump through.
      I knew him well,we went to school together and were born in the same street.
      I know for certain he had never so much as received a parking ticket, he had taken on his fathers one man band type building firm and built it into a sizeable little empire.
      All of this by the time he was 30, he was a white secularist,no political views at all, he didn't even watch the news, he was married with two kids, pots of cash and had a business model to open a garden centre with a kids drop off point in it, a crèche .
      He would be employing Canadians.

      Honestly, the trouble he had getting permission to go, you wouldn't believe it.

      It literally took years and cost him much wonga.

      This is one of the reasons why I get so upset with utterly alien foreign cultured individuals assuming they have some kind of right to simply walk in to any country they choose.

      When I consider the trouble my good friend went through to emigrate to Canada and then look at the utter dross that is flooding into it and my own country now I despair.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by flash View Post
        I well remember a good friend of mine having made a sizeable fortune in the property development business emigrating to BC Canada and the incredible hoops he had to jump through.
        I knew him well,we went to school together and were born in the same street.
        I know for certain he had never so much as received a parking ticket, he had taken on his fathers one man band type building firm and built it into a sizeable little empire.
        All of this by the time he was 30, he was a white secularist,no political views at all, he didn't even watch the news, he was married with two kids, pots of cash and had a business model to open a garden centre with a kids drop off point in it, a crèche .
        He would be employing Canadians.

        Honestly, the trouble he had getting permission to go, you wouldn't believe it.

        It literally took years and cost him much wonga.

        This is one of the reasons why I get so upset with utterly alien foreign cultured individuals assuming they have some kind of right to simply walk in to any country they choose.

        When I consider the trouble my good friend went through to emigrate to Canada and then look at the utter dross that is flooding into it and my own country now I despair.
        Liberals and lefties believe that it's a right and not a privilege that it actually is especially with minorities to immigrate to the country that they want to.
        That attitude and is now beginning to die and the reality now with Brexit and Trump being elected.
        Last edited by VinceW; 30 Jan 17, 22:50.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by VinceW View Post
          Liberals and lefties believe that it's a right and not a privilege that it actually is especially with minorities to immigrate to the country that they want to.
          That attitude and is now beginning to die and the reality now with Brexit and Trump being elected.
          Ethnic diversity is what the Left calls it. They want to thoroughly mix the population of the world such that the entirety is living in Third World conditions under a Socialist dictatorship...

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          • #6
            Shhhhh, UH, doesn't fit the leftie narrative!
            ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

            BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

            BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by VinceW View Post
              Liberals and lefties believe that it's a right and not a privilege that it actually is especially with minorities to immigrate to the country that they want to.
              That attitude and is now beginning to die and the reality now with Brexit and Trump being elected.
              I doubt the attitude is dying, just that you misunderstand it. At least in my liberal mind the state should not decide anything for me, including where I can move and where not. But for some people it's of course the other way around.
              Wisdom is personal

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                Shhhhh, UH, doesn't fit the leftie narrative!
                I'll take that compliment!
                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Swiss have some interesting methods of keeping the riff-raft out.
                  75-year-old expat American who taught as a professor at Switzerland’s top university was denied Swiss citizenship after local officials ruled he did not know enough about the region where he has lived for 39 years.
                  The former longtime chemical engineering professor at ETH Zurich, the Swiss Federal Institute for Technology, learned on Monday that his application to become a naturalized Swiss was turned down, newspaper 20 Minuten reported.
                  The municipal district assembly of Einsiedeln, a monastery town in the canton of Schwyz where the American lives, upheld a decision of the district council following a half-hour discussion.
                  The assembly concluded that the retired academic was not sufficiently integrated to merit citizenship.
                  The Californian has lived since 1975 in Einsiedeln, where he and his wife have raised three children, and where he is a member of local tennis and sailing clubs, 20 Minuten said.
                  Despite his good knowledge of Switzerland and his ability to speak German, a local naturalization commission ruled that he did not know enough about the geography and politics of the region where he lived, the newspaper said.
                  The commission said the American could not name six neighbouring villages and was unaware of the current political issues in Einsiedeln.

                  It believed he wanted to become a Swiss citizen mainly for the “personal benefits and guarantees” this would bring.
                  It is not clear whether the American wants to give up his US citizenship for tax purposes (Americans are required to file income tax returns even if they live abroad and are liable for double taxation).

                  Although the decision was negative, the unsuccessful applicant must still pay a 3,600-franc administrative fee.
                  He has the right to contest the decision within 10 days at the Schwyz cantonal administrative court.
                  See also: CITIZENSHIP BID FAILS IN TRICK QUESTION SCANDAL
                  Foreigners with no family ties to Switzerland must live in the country for at least 12 years before they can apply for Swiss citizenship.
                  An applicant must show that he or she is well integrated, is familiar with local customs and traditions, and poses no security threat.
                  But the detailed requirements differ depending on what canton an applicant is living in and in what municipality.
                  And according to the federal administration, “there is no legally protected right to being naturalized by a community and a canton”.
                  For more information, check here.
                  For a discussion on this subject, check
                  http://www.thelocal.ch/20141014/us-e...ears-residency
                  Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I like that the Swiss system respects the locality's point of view, and expects that local citizens get personally involved with the process. I sure hope, however, that when an application for citizenship is denied, that the local board is obliged to produce a written opinion, like a court judge's, as to why the application was declined, and that it's signed by the panel's members. That should go at least a little way towards cutting down on the bullsht that's common when average citizens get involved in the process -- 'cause we all know what kinds of a$$holes our neighbors are.

                    Originally posted by Karri View Post
                    At least in my liberal mind the state should not decide anything for me, including where I can move and where not. But for some people it's of course the other way around.
                    Have you ever availed yourself of state-funded health care? Renter's assistance? Public education? Publicly subsidized transportation? If you've ever helped yourself to those kinds of public services, or other similar services, then aren't you obliged to meet the state's requirements for such services? "He who pays the band calls the tune." Have you ever danced the state's dance before? If so, did you not abide by their rules? Did you resent that, appreciate it, or just go along apathetically?

                    There's nothing wrong with "going off the grid" and living by your wiles -- but if you're taking the state's money, then you've got no right to resent their rules.
                    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                      I like that the Swiss system respects the locality's point of view, and expects that local citizens get personally involved with the process. I sure hope, however, that when an application for citizenship is denied, that the local board is obliged to produce a written opinion, like a court judge's, as to why the application was declined, and that it's signed by the panel's members. That should go at least a little way towards cutting down on the bullsht that's common when average citizens get involved in the process -- 'cause we all know what kinds of a$$holes our neighbors are.



                      Have you ever availed yourself of state-funded health care? Renter's assistance? Public education? Publicly subsidized transportation? If you've ever helped yourself to those kinds of public services, or other similar services, then aren't you obliged to meet the state's requirements for such services? "He who pays the band calls the tune." Have you ever danced the state's dance before? If so, did you not abide by their rules? Did you resent that, appreciate it, or just go along apathetically?

                      There's nothing wrong with "going off the grid" and living by your wiles -- but if you're taking the state's money, then you've got no right to resent their rules.
                      From what my friends who have lived in Switzerland for more than 20 years tell me I'd have to agree, they have a working plan in place, and that is our problem, ours can, and does change according to who is in the White House,
                      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                        From what my friends who have lived in Switzerland for more than 20 years tell me I'd have to agree, they have a working plan in place, and that is our problem, ours can, and does change according to who is in the White House,
                        If -- IF -- the commune/canton panels can reject an application without written cause, then I'd object to that, since that can open the way to all kinds of small-minded and petty crappola: settling of scores, spite, he gives you the heebee-jeebees, he has too many vowels and/or consonants in his name, don't like his face, whatever. So what, if anything, does a panel have to do when they decline an application?
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          Have you ever availed yourself of state-funded health care? Renter's assistance? Public education? Publicly subsidized transportation? If you've ever helped yourself to those kinds of public services, or other similar services, then aren't you obliged to meet the state's requirements for such services? "He who pays the band calls the tune." Have you ever danced the state's dance before? If so, did you not abide by their rules? Did you resent that, appreciate it, or just go along apathetically?

                          There's nothing wrong with "going off the grid" and living by your wiles -- but if you're taking the state's money, then you've got no right to resent their rules.
                          You are talking about subjects, not citizens, then?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                            You are talking about subjects, not citizens, then?
                            I'm talking about anybody. As a citizen, you may have a hand in crafting the rules governing public services through your votes and whatnot, but there are still rules to their disbursement, and the recipient cum citizen is still obliged to abide by them. Reasonable people may disagree about the specifics of the rules, but that there should be at least some rules I think we can all agree. And if at the end of the day one doesn't like the rules, then one shouldn't accept the services. It's that simple.

                            Or are you advocating that beggars should be choosers?
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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