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  • Benjamin Franklin Said...

    The 'discussions' on the Moslem ban from the weekend coming from either Trump or his press secretary are stressing 'safety and security' and nothing else.

    Civil rights and the Constitution are not being taken into consideration by the administration at all.

    Interestingly, Benjamin Franklin said the following:

    'They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

    The current administration should pay attention to the Founders and not to ideologues such as Bannon.

    They should also listen to people outside the favored few of the inner circle who do not know what they are doing or understand how to govern.

    Apparently, there was no 'heads up' to General Kelly at Homeland Security about the Moslem travel ban which led to the great confusion of its implementation.

    Apparently, in the current administration common sense is not a common virtue.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

  • #2
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Massena View Post
      The 'discussions' on the Moslem ban from the weekend coming from either Trump or his press secretary are stressing 'safety and security' and nothing else.

      Civil rights and the Constitution are not being taken into consideration by the administration at all.

      Interestingly, Benjamin Franklin said the following:

      'They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

      The current administration should pay attention to the Founders and not to ideologues such as Bannon.

      They should also listen to people outside the favored few of the inner circle who do not know what they are doing or understand how to govern.

      Apparently, there was no 'heads up' to General Kelly at Homeland Security about the Moslem travel ban which led to the great confusion of its implementation.

      Apparently, in the current administration common sense is not a common virtue.
      Where in that EO does it say "Moslem ban"?
      IIRC, it may mention "Islamists", a specific subset.
      There is another thread on this subject.
      Smoking Out Islamists via Extreme Vetting


      http://www.meforum.org/6505/smoking-...b3a0d-33661481
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        The 'discussions' on the Moslem ban from the weekend coming from either Trump or his press secretary are stressing 'safety and security' and nothing else.

        Civil rights and the Constitution are not being taken into consideration by the administration at all.

        Interestingly, Benjamin Franklin said the following:

        'They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

        The current administration should pay attention to the Founders and not to ideologues such as Bannon.

        They should also listen to people outside the favored few of the inner circle who do not know what they are doing or understand how to govern.

        Apparently, there was no 'heads up' to General Kelly at Homeland Security about the Moslem travel ban which led to the great confusion of its implementation.

        Apparently, in the current administration common sense is not a common virtue.
        In fact, Trump is following the law:

        U.S.Code 8 -1182(f) Suspension of Entry

        (f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.


        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Massena View Post
          The 'discussions' on the Moslem ban from the weekend coming from either Trump or his press secretary are stressing 'safety and security' and nothing else.

          Civil rights and the Constitution are not being taken into consideration by the administration at all.

          Interestingly, Benjamin Franklin said the following:

          'They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

          The current administration should pay attention to the Founders and not to ideologues such as Bannon.

          They should also listen to people outside the favored few of the inner circle who do not know what they are doing or understand how to govern.

          Apparently, there was no 'heads up' to General Kelly at Homeland Security about the Moslem travel ban which led to the great confusion of its implementation.

          Apparently, in the current administration common sense is not a common virtue.
          Firstly, a breath of fresh air to read your posts compared to the men out there going after Muslims(, I say the same to blacks who go after whites)

          I say to anti Muslims....what would Jesus do? Im kindly asking all acg members to speak positively of the Muslims, please just consider it.


          Anyone who goes after Muslims in general is the same as blm members who dislike all whites....thats just logic.

          Anyway partner,

          'They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.'


          At times has the US not given up liberty for the right cause. Like in WW1 when folks were not allowed to be critical of the USA as a means to not hamper the war effort? Also.....consider what would have happened in WW2 had one praised the Third Reich openly here in the USA in 1943...I argue that action warrants arrest. Now some would say freedom of speech is the defense....but I think we can both agree that Americans should not have been free to during WW2 be supportive of the Third Reich.

          Today, we see some suggest that well the USA would not have taken in Nazis during WW2, why take in Muslims? As if Third Reich members and Muslims are the same. The anti Muslims either ignore or do not understand that the US military includes Muslims who have died in the fight against AQ and ISIL. Also that perhaps 1 million+ Muslims served the USSR during WW2, fighting the "Nazis". That Muslims, historically speaking, are a very very diverse people....commanding tremendous empires and Kingdoms as Christians did.

          Truth is Trump did not include Saudi Arabia on the travel ban...Now 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Muslims. I wonder if some Trump supporters are furious with Trump...? After all right here on ACG some Trump supporters and critics of Obama have been accusing the gov of Saudi Arabia of being behind 9/11....and we can imagine what these same folks think of the US gov which of course is allied to Saudi. Critics of Trump have said that Trump has to much business in Saudi, Egypt and Pakistan and therefore to much money is involved and Trump does not actually care about banning refugees but did the ban to appease voters while not harming his business interests. Now as you know Kevin I support Trump, so Im standing by Trump and I disagree with those critical of Trump.
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • #6
            Benjamin Franklin is a great reference. He wrote many pamphlets denouncing the German immigrants to Pennsylvania as "stupid, swarthy Germans"
            and strongly campaigned to stop the refugees from Germanic nations, Holland, Germany, Denmark,

            http://www.dialoginternational.com/d...anklin-on.html
            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              In fact, Trump is following the law:

              U.S.Code 8 -1182(f) Suspension of Entry

              (f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.


              If that is so, then why are the courts ruling against him?
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                If that is so, then why are the courts ruling against him?
                It's called the politics of political correctness, and the courts will lose because Trump is exercising a specific presidential authority over which the courts have no say.

                Obama did the same thing, but the liberal judges said nothing.

                It's history - look it up.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post
                  If that is so, then why are the courts ruling against him?
                  Lower courts. Await the rulings of the higher courts before you start dancing.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                    Benjamin Franklin is a great reference. He wrote many pamphlets denouncing the German immigrants to Pennsylvania as "stupid, swarthy Germans"
                    and strongly campaigned to stop the refugees from Germanic nations, Holland, Germany, Denmark,

                    http://www.dialoginternational.com/d...anklin-on.html
                    Yeah, ole Ben was a card. He had some interesting things to say about the natives as well...
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Massena View Post
                      If that is so, then why are the courts ruling against him?
                      They might be packed with flammin' Liberal Leftist Regressives seeking to cicumvent the Amendment provisions of the USA Constitution via Judicial "legislation" from the Bench, making Law rather than interpretting it.

                      Of course none would "call this treason", or sedition, or violation of their Oath/Affirmation of Office. It's all a matter of relative standards, morals, and trans-aliteration of the words of our Founding Fathers.

                      Judges when not elected are appointed...

                      It's not like they had to pass any 'civil service' test or somethin' ...
                      Last edited by G David Bock; 31 Jan 17, 00:32. Reason: spellin' fixen'
                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        In fact, Trump is following the law:

                        U.S.Code 8 -1182(f) Suspension of Entry

                        (f) Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.


                        Sounds like Trump is 'damn legal' to do this. Wording of his EO might be a bit too loose and need tightening, but it's within his authority as much as it was for Barry to open the flood gates with careless disregard to safety.
                        Last edited by G David Bock; 30 Jan 17, 23:57.
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          First, we (USA) need a 20 to 1 policy ...
                          For every 20 "Muslim refugees" taken in by their fellow "Muslim Nations"/Dar-el-Islam ; the USA will considering taking in one "Muslim Refugee" provided these (sometimes old) rules apply:
                          1) This refugee must have a USA (non-government) sponsor willing to pay the costs of processing and bringing said " "Muslim" refuggee" into this country ...
                          ... And provide the expense/costs of supporting said " "Muslim" refuggee" until they become self-supporting.
                          2) Said " "Muslim" Refugee" will be considered a Tempoary Visitor to the USA and may get a (PALE) Green Card to allow them to be employed during their 'tempoary stay' here pending peace settlement in their native nation/land and their relocation back to there (waiver system possible).
                          3) Extensive exceptions to the above will be made for any non-Muslim ethnic or religious refugee currently target for excessive violence/persecution in the listed war zones under constriction for immigration.
                          4) Even more extensive exceptions will be made for any refugee, any ethnic or religion, whom has worked for/with American Military Forces or Government Agencies in a supportive role in any of the conflicted regions and/or proscribed Nations of this EO; and their immediate families.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                            Sounds like Trump is 'damn legal' to do this. Wording of his EO might be a bit too loose and need tightening, but it's within his authority as much as it was for Barry to open the flood gates with careless disregard to safety.
                            Ya, because So many US citizens have been killed in 8 years, on US soil from Immigrates from those banned countries? Oh wait they all came from the Countries not the banned list. They all hail from the biggest funders of State Terror Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Pakistan, etc. That like any good organized crime syndicate funnel their home grown terrorists through other countries, first to give them, Probable Deniability. Then they can pretend to be our allies in the War on Terror, and work with our Corporations, and we don't bother to look at how they torture, decapitate, impoverish, imprison without trial, keep women in relative Slavery, and also systematic child sex slave industry, and are far more ruled by Sharia Law, and Islamic Fundamentalism than Iran or Syria ever thought about being. But don't let cognitive information bias get out of the way of a good fake story.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FluffyBunnyFeet View Post
                              Ya, because So many US citizens have been killed in 8 years, on US soil from Immigrates from those banned countries? Oh wait they all came from the Countries not the banned list. They all hail from the biggest funders of State Terror Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Pakistan, etc. That like any good organized crime syndicate funnel their home grown terrorists through other countries, first to give them, Probable Deniability. Then they can pretend to be our allies in the War on Terror, and work with our Corporations, and we don't bother to look at how they torture, decapitate, impoverish, imprison without trial, keep women in relative Slavery, and also systematic child sex slave industry, and are far more ruled by Sharia Law, and Islamic Fundamentalism than Iran or Syria ever thought about being. But don't let cognitive information bias get out of the way of a good fake story.
                              Your "Hope and Change" Hero BHO helped make that happen.
                              Only so much can be done in the first week.
                              Be patient grasshopper, more is in the pipeline.
                              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                              Comment

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