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What went wrong with liberalism?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JFKvsNixon View Post
    Exactly. It makes me cringe when people lump liberals with the political left, the Liberals and the communists/socialists are political rivals. For example they seriously disagree over issues such as personal freedom vs state control, or more importantly the rights of the individual vs the wellbeing of the state.

    In all the communist dictatorships the liberals were one of the first groups that were purged.
    The problem is, that traditional Liberals are Right of Center Conservatives in today's political labeling. I can't help it if the Progressive Left co-opted the label then turned it into a pejorative. One more example of how the Left ruins everything they touch.

    Sure, the traditional Liberal positions are reasonable ones. But, in today's political climate the only way they'll be heard is to join forces with the Right because the Left sure as hell isn't going to listen to them.

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    • #32
      I wonder what term they are going to co-opt next, they've trashed the progressive one...

      Time for them to repackage again.
      Credo quia absurdum.


      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Surrey View Post
        Rather than favouring Us workers over Chinese, the reality is that Trump is favouring relatively small but vocal group of American workers over a much larger group of US consumers.
        Not quite. Trump is rewarding the Rust Belt, where much of the jobs will go, for deserting the Hillabeast to support him.

        The consumers will benefit in the long run from cheaper oil, trade balance adjustments, and cheaper gas.

        Originally posted by Surrey View Post
        Where true liberalism that is based on freedom ( i e liberal conservatism ) has failed is in allowing the rise of the populists like Trump.
        No, their failure has been to recognize that in the USA you either deploy populists, or are defeated by them.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          The problem is, that traditional Liberals are Right of Center Conservatives in today's political labeling. I can't help it if the Progressive Left co-opted the label then turned it into a pejorative. One more example of how the Left ruins everything they touch.

          Sure, the traditional Liberal positions are reasonable ones. But, in today's political climate the only way they'll be heard is to join forces with the Right because the Left sure as hell isn't going to listen to them.
          I agree to a certain extent, but Liberals also believes in the rights of the individual, whereas I think that many right of centre conservatives believe that if the ends justifies the means then personal individual rights can be washed away. Something that they share with the more radical Leftists.

          Remember that here in the UK, the Liberal Party in whatever version has existed has always been a very distinct political party separate to the left wing Labour party.

          My personal belief is that in the USA the term Liberal has been used as a political insult. Maybe aimed towards anyone who's perceived as being too weak to stand up to their opponents and too wishy-washy to make difficult decisions. Which is quite ironic because here in the UK one of the later versions of the Liberal party was led by an ex-Royal Marine Captain who joined the Royal Navy's version of the SAS, and who then left to become an intelligence officer for MI6.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            Not quite. Trump is rewarding the Rust Belt, where much of the jobs will go, for deserting the Hillabeast to support him.

            The consumers will benefit in the long run from cheaper oil, trade balance adjustments, and cheaper gas.



            No, their failure has been to recognize that in the USA you either deploy populists, or are defeated by them.
            Consumers will lose out be paying more for their cars and whatever else Trump puts a tariff on. Leaves them with less income to spend on other things results in less American jobs. Long and short term.

            Failure to deploy popular politicians not populists. There is a difference. Reagan was popular but was in no way a populist.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Surrey View Post
              Consumers will lose out be paying more for their cars and whatever else Trump puts a tariff on. Leaves them with less income to spend on other things results in less American jobs. Long and short term.

              Failure to deploy popular politicians not populists. There is a difference. Reagan was popular but was in no way a populist.
              Cars will cost less since Trump killed Bobo's emissions control/weight regulation.

              We build our own cars, you see.

              It isn't possible to be elected POTUS without being popular. Just because Trump is hated by the media doesn't make him unpopular.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                (...)
                What caused liberalism to go off the cliff the way it has?
                The bizar assumption that all people are (created) equal(ly).
                Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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