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President Donald Trump says that he believes torture works

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  • #46
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    I dunno, the threat of torture sure seems to work, but...

    Why are we even talking about this?
    Last I checked, wasn't there grand total of about one terrorist captured alive in the last 8 years?

    Seems like the King Kong of all moot points if you ask me.
    Could be John. The others were KIA.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      Before they sent in ground troops.

      In order to reduce the risk to American lives.

      Which is what I said: indirect fire support.

      You don't understand much about military operations, do you?




      You would be surprised at what I know about military operations but then again you are General of Forums so are much wiser than the rest of us....

      I assumed you served or are you another ACG????

      have a nice day....

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by NoPref View Post
        Unless there's a school that teaches/trains people how or why to perform interrogations using torture, you're just saying "you don't know".
        There used to be. I haven't checked recently but I expect they are still available.

        Originally posted by NoPref View Post
        An unverifiable assertion. You don't even bother to make up any results.
        You have already stated you know nothing on the topic, and are unwilling to listen, so why bother with unnecessary typing?

        Originally posted by NoPref View Post
        Got any links to LE reports to back this statement up?
        If you mean 'criminal cases' when you use 'LE reports', then refer to the Department of Justice. They've done some useful work on the topic.
        Its too routine to really draw head interest, but the data is there.

        Originally posted by NoPref View Post
        So criminals have interrogators with better training than US Army EMs
        Definitely. Not that that is a high bar to scale. And, of course, there are criminals who are military-trained, too.

        Originally posted by NoPref View Post
        who can successfully use torture as an adjunct to interrogation? There ought to be LE reports on this as well, if it's not just criminals using torture to punish people.
        If you mean 'criminal cases' when you use 'LE reports', then yes, lots of them.

        Of course, the thrust of the interrogation is generally 'tell me where the dope is and you can keep the rest of your fingers', or 'pay me what you owe and I will stop breaking bones', but it has a high success rate.

        The cartels in Mexico have refined their practices to quite a high degree.

        Originally posted by NoPref View Post
        Square one is your assertion that torture is an effective adjunct to interrogation. You've provided nothing to back that up, not even anecdotes.
        You don't possess the mental acuity to learn, so again, why bother? I'm just killing time in a boring meeting.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Bow View Post
          [/B]


          You would be surprised at what I know about military operations but then again you are General of Forums so are much wiser than the rest of us....

          I assumed you served or are you another ACG????

          have a nice day....
          I always do.

          And yes, I did.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            I dunno, the threat of torture sure seems to work, but...

            Why are we even talking about this?
            Last I checked, wasn't there grand total of about one terrorist captured alive in the last 8 years?

            Seems like the King Kong of all moot points if you ask me.
            I'm stuck in a all-day meeting covering the role of the local government in dealing with homeless subjects and EDPs.

            It is hosted and run by social workers. They are very engaged. They have quickly learned to appreciate it when me and my boss are not engaged.

            In fact my boss is asleep in his chair.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              There used to be. I haven't checked recently but I expect they are still available.




              You have already stated you know nothing on the topic, and are unwilling to listen, so why bother with unnecessary typing?
              No, you stated that, and then failed to follow up with any evidence to back your assertions.


              If you mean 'criminal cases' when you use 'LE reports', then refer to the Department of Justice. They've done some useful work on the topic.
              Its too routine to really draw head interest, but the data is there.
              Where? Links? Names of reports? News stories? Any data at all to back this up?

              Definitely. Not that that is a high bar to scale. And, of course, there are criminals who are military-trained, too.

              If you mean 'criminal cases' when you use 'LE reports', then yes, lots of them.
              Where? Links? Names of reports? News stories? Any data at all to back this up?

              Of course, the thrust of the interrogation is generally 'tell me where the dope is and you can keep the rest of your fingers', or 'pay me what you owe and I will stop breaking bones', but it has a high success rate.
              Your second example is more like extortion, definitely not interrogation.

              The cartels in Mexico have refined their practices to quite a high degree.
              Finally, an assertion for which I have independent confirmation.

              Still, over the course of multiple posts you have provided no evidence that torture is a useful adjunct to interrogation. You simply assert that as a fact and then falsely declare that disbelief is evidence of inability to learn information that you haven't provided.

              Do you simply believe that torture works? If so, please just say so. I'm not going to argue with someone's deeply held personal beliefs.

              Comment


              • #52
                Given Mattis' views and previous command instructions about US troops' conduct with regard to civilian populations, I dearly hope that he opposes this.

                To make this public policy is not worth it for the overall impact on US status
                History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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                • #53
                  Torture works. It is working right now. All you guys making personal remarks against each other is torture to the ACG Staff. Keep torturing us and we will have no choice but to authorize Plan Z, deleting posts, locking threads, and tallying up which and how many of you will be taking a vacation.
                  Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                  Prayers.

                  BoRG

                  http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
                    Given Mattis' views and previous command instructions about US troops' conduct with regard to civilian populations, I dearly hope that he opposes this.

                    To make this public policy is not worth it for the overall impact on US status
                    Trump already said that he would leave up to Mattis!
                    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I really think if Trump tried to bully Mattis into it I would bet Mattis would quit. H e strikes me as a man who would not compromise his principles

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
                        I really think if Trump tried to bully Mattis into it I would bet Mattis would quit. H e strikes me as a man who would not compromise his principles
                        U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday that he would defer to Defense Secretary James Mattis regarding the use of waterboarding as an intelligence-gathering tool, even though Trump said he still believes the practice works.



                        http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartandhp
                        Last edited by Trung Si; 28 Jan 17, 18:52.
                        Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                          U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday that he would defer to Defense Secretary James Mattis regarding the use of waterboarding as an intelligence-gathering tool, even though Trump said he still believes the practice works.



                          http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartandhp
                          I know he said that...but I haven't trusted hardly any politicians since 1971.
                          You gotta admit Trump changes his mind a lot...........

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            I'm stuck in a all-day meeting covering the role of the local government in dealing with homeless subjects and EDPs.

                            It is hosted and run by social workers. They are very engaged. They have quickly learned to appreciate it when me and my boss are not engaged.

                            In fact my boss is asleep in his chair.
                            So....a lot of pie in the sky ideas that are unfunded and impractical?

                            Or a lot of hand-wringing about how your officers take the homeless guy that's refusing to leave the restaurant and begging for money to jail rather than have a sit-down with him and discuss the finer points of applying for disability?

                            Or why your officers occasionally have to lay hands on EDPs in order to keep them from getting out of control or to get them to the hospital.....and why their ideas about talking in a soft voice are superior.....even though they call your officers for help when they're dealing with EDP or just irritable people?

                            You can tell about how much respect I have for the whole Social Worker thing. In my life I've met 4 Social workers that I didn't want to punch in the face. 2 have quit because the system is BS and they couldn't stand it anymore. 1 is dating one of our sergeants. And the last one was a rookie, which meant she was taking our very well articulated advice on how to handle the situation.....and we just wanted to punch her bosses in the face (they were trying to send a victim back to a group home where they had just been repeatedly assaulted....and threatened with further assaults by the other juveniles).
                            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                              So....a lot of pie in the sky ideas that are unfunded and impractical?

                              Or a lot of hand-wringing about how your officers take the homeless guy that's refusing to leave the restaurant and begging for money to jail rather than have a sit-down with him and discuss the finer points of applying for disability?

                              Or why your officers occasionally have to lay hands on EDPs in order to keep them from getting out of control or to get them to the hospital.....and why their ideas about talking in a soft voice are superior.....even though they call your officers for help when they're dealing with EDP or just irritable people?

                              You can tell about how much respect I have for the whole Social Worker thing. In my life I've met 4 Social workers that I didn't want to punch in the face. 2 have quit because the system is BS and they couldn't stand it anymore. 1 is dating one of our sergeants. And the last one was a rookie, which meant she was taking our very well articulated advice on how to handle the situation.....and we just wanted to punch her bosses in the face (they were trying to send a victim back to a group home where they had just been repeatedly assaulted....and threatened with further assaults by the other juveniles).
                              Nah, it a higher-level thing. They have some grant which allows them to use X number of housing project units for homeless people. Re-introduction into society is the current term. One of the stipulations is quarterly meetings with all agencies involved.

                              Two years, countless dollars, not a single success story. The homeless tear up the units, sub-let them, or simply refuse to stay there. The housing project people are fit to be tied, the social workers are perplexed, and the police reps are unsurprised. Three more years to go, which means at least twelve more meetings.

                              All the money they're paying out and they still are too cheap to cater a lunch.

                              I much prefer the meetings with our child protective service people. They lay out a decent meal.
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                                There are many ways one can torture the evil to obtain information without resorting to their level of peeling fingernails and cutting off body parts.

                                The Muslim insurrection in the Philippines quickly ended when the word got out that bullets were being dipped in pig fat. Certainly something similar, the threat of pig fat, could be used on those who's brain has been poisoned by Radical Islam.

                                Those on the bleeding heart Left will argue that torture never works. That is why one verifies the information being extracted regardless of the interrogation methods used.

                                BTY, the Feds have routinely violated the Miranda Rights of citizens in the past which included an 18 hour interrogation of an individual I know that made the mistake of parking in front of the Federal Building in Detroit with a rental truck as he went inside to conduct a mandated change of address as a firearm dealer. Or, the case of James Nichols, guilt by association, not to mention the harassment of numerous individuals living in the area. http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/12/us...onspiracy.html So desperate the anti gun Clinton Administration was to connect the Michigan Militia to that case in their effort to eliminate the Second Amendment.

                                Those that the torture would be conducted on are NOT US citizens or combatants in the military of a nation at war. (Think Gitmo detainees.)
                                In Vietnam, we placed the ace of spades on enemy KIA's as a calling card. Perhaps in today's war, we should place a strip of bacon in our enemy's mouth as a calling card.
                                "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                                - Col. David Hackworth

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