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  • #61
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    It's not at all clear what that means, as natural gas is currently selling for rather low price. If the US Govt insists on US made steel, that might eat up the producer's profit margin such that building the pipeline becomes economically unfeasible.

    http://inflationdata.com/articles/in...justed-natural
    DAPL and Keystone XL aren't natural gas pipelines.

    We don't like using foreign steel, particularly Chinese steel, for well casings.

    As far as Keystone XL, back in 2012, the vast majority of the materials came from North America, including most of the steel...
    We estimate 821,000 tons of high strength line pipe will be used on the project in Canada and the U.S. TransCanada has estimated it will use 660,000 tons of steel for the U.S. portion of the Keystone XL pipeline. The following are the line pipe mills who are manufacturing the pipe:
    • Welspun – Little Rock, Arkansas, USA 332,800 tons 50%
    • Evraz – Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada 156,266 tons 24%
    • ILVA – Italy 103,147 tons 16%
    • Welspun – India 69,457 tons 10%


    It is important to understand pipeline companies do not purchase raw steel. Rather, we purchase sophisticated manufactured products such as high strength steel pipe and pumps that are fabricated from steel and other metals. It is the responsibility of the manufacturers of these products to source the necessary raw materials and to produce a product that meets all relevant regulations, codes and our internal specifications.

    There are a number of materials and equipment items containing steel that have not yet been contracted for, which would amount to approximately 35,000 tons of steel yet to be sourced. The major items are as follows:
    • Houston lateral and Nebraska re-route – line pipe and associated materials such as fittings, valves, etc.
    • Cushing, Oklahoma and Baker, Montana Terminals – steel will be required for the construction of tanks plus the steel required for the other materials related to the terminal such as tanks, piping, pumps.
    • Pump stations – pumps, motors and other related materials such as valves, fittings, etc. to be added at each location in the U.S.


    We anticipate that virtually all of the 35,000 tons of steel products described above will be purchased from North American mills and manufacturers. TransCanada has already entered into contracts to purchase over $800 million of finished pipe and other products from United States manufacturers for Keystone XL. We anticipate purchasing additional products from United States manufacturers as we complete procurement for the project.

    http://www.mining.com/75-per-cent-of...north-america/

    All of the steel going forward was already expected to come from the US.
    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      Why would experts claim that manufacturing jobs are coming back?

      There certainly are no indications of it at the moment.
      You misunderstand. No one is predicting a return of jobs, but an increase in output. That increase will be predicated on greater automation. New low end jobs are not part of the equation, so all the Rust Belt people who are expecting Trump to bring back jobs stand to be terribly disappointed.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
        DAPL and Keystone XL aren't natural gas pipelines.

        We don't like using foreign steel, particularly Chinese steel, for well casings.

        As far as Keystone XL, back in 2012, the vast majority of the materials came from North America, including most of the steel...
        We estimate 821,000 tons of high strength line pipe will be used on the project in Canada and the U.S. TransCanada has estimated it will use 660,000 tons of steel for the U.S. portion of the Keystone XL pipeline. The following are the line pipe mills who are manufacturing the pipe:
        • Welspun – Little Rock, Arkansas, USA 332,800 tons 50%
        • Evraz – Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada 156,266 tons 24%
        • ILVA – Italy 103,147 tons 16%
        • Welspun – India 69,457 tons 10%


        It is important to understand pipeline companies do not purchase raw steel. Rather, we purchase sophisticated manufactured products such as high strength steel pipe and pumps that are fabricated from steel and other metals. It is the responsibility of the manufacturers of these products to source the necessary raw materials and to produce a product that meets all relevant regulations, codes and our internal specifications.

        There are a number of materials and equipment items containing steel that have not yet been contracted for, which would amount to approximately 35,000 tons of steel yet to be sourced. The major items are as follows:
        • Houston lateral and Nebraska re-route – line pipe and associated materials such as fittings, valves, etc.
        • Cushing, Oklahoma and Baker, Montana Terminals – steel will be required for the construction of tanks plus the steel required for the other materials related to the terminal such as tanks, piping, pumps.
        • Pump stations – pumps, motors and other related materials such as valves, fittings, etc. to be added at each location in the U.S.


        We anticipate that virtually all of the 35,000 tons of steel products described above will be purchased from North American mills and manufacturers. TransCanada has already entered into contracts to purchase over $800 million of finished pipe and other products from United States manufacturers for Keystone XL. We anticipate purchasing additional products from United States manufacturers as we complete procurement for the project.

        http://www.mining.com/75-per-cent-of...north-america/

        All of the steel going forward was already expected to come from the US.
        So you're saying that the cost of US made steel was factored in long ago. That renders Trump's talk about US made materials rather a canard.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
          But if an oil and gas producer's profit margin is 18¢ on the dollar, then a spike in the cost of materials may render the entire project too unattractive to go forward. Then all the new jobs that Trump promised will disappear.

          The producers are not in business for Trump's benefit, but for their own.
          The oil & gas producers aren't paying for the pipelines. The companies that have to squeeze out a profit are TransCanada and Energy Transfer Partners.
          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            So you're saying that the cost of US made steel was factored in long ago. That renders Trump's talk about US made materials rather a canard.
            It makes it easy for him to win. After 228 years of politicians in the White House, there's a lot of "low hanging fruit" for Trump to pick...
            Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
              You misunderstand. No one is predicting a return of jobs, but an increase in output. That increase will be predicated on greater automation. New low end jobs are not part of the equation, so all the Rust Belt people who are expecting Trump to bring back jobs stand to be terribly disappointed.
              The shale boom has already led to an increase in manufacturing jobs in the US. Plentiful, cheap natural gas has led to a "manufacturing revival" in Pennsylvania.

              Toss in tax reform which makes export-income tax-free and smart, bilateral trade deals which lower and eliminate tariffs on US exports and you'll see a rejuvenation of the US manufacturing economy.
              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                From the link above:



                Clear words. I guess he lied.
                I don't give a rat's @$$ about his bombastic over-the-top campaign rhetoric... Accomplishments are what matter.

                And... The US government was already going to get about 25% of TransCanada's profits from corporate income taxes... More "low hanging fruit."
                Last edited by The Doctor; 24 Jan 17, 15:05.
                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                  Or he simply didn't know that he had no way to deliver on such a promise.

                  I don't give a rat's @$$ about his bombastic over-the-top campaign rhetoric... Accomplishments are what matter.

                  And... The US government was already going to get about 25% of TransCanada's profits... More "low hanging fruit."
                  So you hold him to no account, unless he decides that a core interest of yours ends up becoming simple bombast, I assume.

                  Sorry, promises are promises. "You can keep your doctor if you want to....." No matter WHEN they are made.
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    So you hold him to no account, unless he decides that a core interest of yours ends up becoming simple bombast, I assume.

                    Sorry, promises are promises. "You can keep your doctor if you want to....." No matter WHEN they are made.
                    What's the corporate tax rate?
                    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                      What's the corporate tax rate?
                      Immaterial. He was not talking about income taxes. No miss direction. He was talking about a specific agreement between the US and the company.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Despite all the whining, Trump is trying to move America forward, something Obama never did and Clinton wasn't going to do either.

                        I guess if it gets unbearable for all of you, you can always go to another country and whine about them for a while.

                        I'm a realist - I don't expect miracles or perfection right out of the gate, but apparently that's the only standard a lot of you know, so you're doomed to disappointment in America. Obama spent eight years ruining our economy, so I figure Trump gets some time to try and fix a few things. Course, you can always contact the White House and let your personal wishes be known.

                        Let me know when you need that ride to the airport. Only too happy to help you out.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          You know if America is soo bad why do we have illegals busting down the door to get in???
                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                            Immaterial. He was not talking about income taxes. No miss direction. He was talking about a specific agreement between the US and the company.
                            Try to follow along...

                            President, policy, rhetoric:
                            • Obama, national healthcare - Bad, "You can keep your doctors" - Irrelevant.
                            • Obama, cap & trade - Bad, "Electricity rates will skyrocket" - Irrelevant.
                            • Trump, Physical border barrier - Good, "It will be a wall, not a fence." - Irrelevant.
                            • Trump, approve Keystone XL and DAPL - Good, "We'll take a piece of the action." - Irrelevant.


                            The rhetoric is always irrelevant, irrespective of the candidate or president.

                            In the case of the Keystone XL, all of the remaining steel was already going to come from the US and the government was already going to take about 25% of the profits. This is called "picking low hanging fruit."
                            Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Two threads about Trump's Executive Orders combined.

                              ACG Staff

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                                It makes it easy for him to win. After 228 years of politicians in the White House, there's a lot of "low hanging fruit" for Trump to pick...
                                Which politicians? Reagan? Two Bush's? All Trump has done is say "US made," without mentioning the fact that pipelines require a certain standard of quality that Asian steel often does not offer. Nothing of substance was accomplished there.

                                Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                                The shale boom has already led to an increase in manufacturing jobs in the US. Plentiful, cheap natural gas has led to a "manufacturing revival" in Pennsylvania.

                                Toss in tax reform which makes export-income tax-free and smart, bilateral trade deals which lower and eliminate tariffs on US exports and you'll see a rejuvenation of the US manufacturing economy.
                                I was referring to Arnold Rimmer, who apparently conflated increasing manufacturing output with increasing employment. In today's technological environment, the two are not related. Indeed, even the growth in manufacturing being experienced in Pennsylvania that you've pointed out, it's output -- capital driven output -- that's on the rise. Employment, especially among the low skilled, has moved only nominally at most. These developments are positive for entrepreneurs, positive for financiers, definitely positive for consumers, but they're not going to materialize for low skilled workers, ie the rank and file Trump voters. Smokestack industry is not going to be resurrected, not by Trump, not by the Almighty Himself. Today's Trump voters are sounding an awful lot like yesteryear's Labour voters in Britain. All indications are that this new populism will end the way the old one did.
                                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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