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  • #46
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    If that's your viewpoint, then it's from your conservative point of view.
    The OP did ask for viewpoint from conservative right-wingers. Why are you answering?

    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    Ended torture policies
    Tax credits to encourage businesses to hire veterans
    Increased veteran affairs budget
    Increased broadband coverage
    Ended Donít Ask, Donít Tell
    Expanded stem cell research
    Killed Osama

    After Bush and going into Trump it was a breath of fresh air to have someone that's articulate at the helm.
    When did you become a conservative right-winger?

    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    I heard that he made beer in the WH. Don't know if it tasted any better than BUD, but....maybe
    Oh goody! HP is now a conservative right-winger!

    Last edited by Salinator; 21 Jan 17, 17:38.
    Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

    Prayers.

    BoRG

    http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Surrey View Post
      He helped take down Qaddafi. Even Reagan couldn't do that.
      Did Qaddafi need to be taken down? There are far more vicious dictators than he was on the planet at the time...

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Surrey View Post
        He helped take down Qaddafi. Even Reagan couldn't do that.
        Like Tsar pointed out, Reagan didn't try, and it would have been better if Bobo had left him in place.

        Mark that one down as yet another of Bobo's failures in foreign affairs.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          Did Qaddafi need to be taken down? There are far more vicious dictators than he was on the planet at the time...
          Only if there is the Mother of All stabilisation and succession plans ready to go and resourced to the hilt.

          Such things have been beyond the current generation of Western politicians and the patience of their voters, at least operating in Muslim nations.
          Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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          • #50
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            Did Qaddafi need to be taken down? There are far more vicious dictators than he was on the planet at the time...
            Maybe there were, but none who had brought down an American airliner.

            Revenge is better late than never, or do you think mad dictators should be able to murder hundreds of American (and British and French) citizens with impunity?
            Once the rebellion started Qaddafi's usefulness was ended so the best policy was to ensure that justice was done as soon as possible.
            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Salinator View Post
              The OP did ask for viewpoint from conservative right-wingers. Why are you answering?


              When did you become a conservative right-winger?


              Oh goody! HP is now a conservative right-winger!

              conservative, yes!

              right-winger, nope.

              and I don't like Kool-Aid compare to other posters Sal, I got a link where you can buy it in pallet lots. It's pretty cheap...just like Trump
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                Maybe there were, but none who had brought down an American airliner.

                Revenge is better late than never, or do you think mad dictators should be able to murder hundreds of American (and British and French) citizens with impunity?
                Once the rebellion started Qaddafi's usefulness was ended so the best policy was to ensure that justice was done as soon as possible.

                In 1991, Bush1 stopped the gulf war after 100 hours of ground action because he didn't want to cause the collapse of Saddam's government. As bad as saddam was, Bush1 apparently recognized the inevitable anarchy that would follow and decided that stability with saddam was better than the alternative.
                In 2003 Bush2 was endlessly attacked by the left for failing to adequately anticipate and prepare for the inevitable instability that would follow Saddam's fall.
                The critics did have a reasonable point.
                In Libya, BO (with Hillary's urging) helped bring down Quadaffi and had no plan to deal with the anticipated anarchy. This past week US planes bombed two ISIS camps in the now failed State of Libya.
                Quaddaffi was bad, but it appears the alternative will be worse.
                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                  In 1991, Bush1 stopped the gulf war after 100 hours of ground action because he didn't want to cause the collapse of Saddam's government. As bad as saddam was, Bush1 apparently recognized the inevitable anarchy that would follow and decided that stability with saddam was better than the alternative.
                  In 2003 Bush2 was endlessly attacked by the left for failing to adequately anticipate and prepare for the inevitable instability that would follow Saddam's fall.
                  The critics did have a reasonable point.
                  In Libya, BO (with Hillary's urging) helped bring down Quadaffi and had no plan to deal with the anticipated anarchy. This past week US planes bombed two ISIS camps in the now failed State of Libya.
                  Quaddaffi was bad, but it appears the alternative will be worse.
                  Libya is not as bad as Syria, where there was no intervention.

                  As I said Daffy had outlived his usefulness.
                  Saddam didn't bring down any airliners.
                  There was no purpose in keeping him in power or even alive after the rebellion got underway. Best to accelerate the process.
                  "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                    Libya is not as bad as Syria, where there was no intervention.

                    As I said Daffy had outlived his usefulness.
                    Saddam didn't bring down any airliners.
                    There was no purpose in keeping him in power or even alive after the rebellion got underway. Best to accelerate the process.

                    I never said Daffy was good. I merely said that taking him out and leaving the place a vacuum was the worst idea.

                    The fact that saddam didn't bring down airliners isn't relevant. The examples are comparable because they all involve decisions on and consequences of regime change. We created the vacuum in Libya and ISIS is a bigger threat to the West than Daffy was. We haven't improved things, we haven't lessened the threat and we haven't stopped the violence, we just made sure daffy wasn't behind it.

                    I hate hate having to remember the various spellings of his name so appreciate your use of "Daffy".
                    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                      I never said Daffy was good. I merely said that taking him out and leaving the place a vacuum was the worst idea.

                      The fact that saddam didn't bring down airliners isn't relevant. The examples are comparable because they all involve decisions on and consequences of regime change. We created the vacuum in Libya and ISIS is a bigger threat to the West than Daffy was. We haven't improved things, we haven't lessened the threat and we haven't stopped the violence, we just made sure daffy wasn't behind it.

                      I hate hate having to remember the various spellings of his name so appreciate your use of "Daffy".
                      Libya was more regime destruction rather than regime change. It was sickening seeing Blair kowtowing to Daffy. Anyway the choice was between trying to prop up Daffy and hastening his downfall. Difficult to stomach supporting Daffy. Libya may be bad today but it isn't a patch on Syria.
                      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                        Maybe there were, but none who had brought down an American airliner.

                        Revenge is better late than never, or do you think mad dictators should be able to murder hundreds of American (and British and French) citizens with impunity?
                        Once the rebellion started Qaddafi's usefulness was ended so the best policy was to ensure that justice was done as soon as possible.
                        This being a history forum, I feel obligated to point out that Reagan ordered F-111 strikes that convinced K to desist from assisting terror attacks on the USA or its citizens.

                        Helping overthrow him certainly sent a message to dictators who hate the USA but avoid pissing us off, and it wasn't a good message.

                        We should have stayed out of it and let the chips fall where they may.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                          Only if there is the Mother of All stabilisation and succession plans ready to go and resourced to the hilt.

                          Such things have been beyond the current generation of Western politicians and the patience of their voters, at least operating in Muslim nations.
                          That's the way I see it. You need a post war game plan. Better to stick with the dictator you know than risk a new dictator you don't.

                          In Obama's case it was beyond him entirely that the result of overthrowing Qaddafi could be a civil war and a new dictatorship worse than the old dictatorship. Of course, he got a similar lesson out of Syria and Egypt...

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            This being a history forum, I feel obligated to point out that Reagan ordered F-111 strikes that convinced K to desist from assisting terror attacks on the USA or its citizens.

                            Helping overthrow him certainly sent a message to dictators who hate the USA but avoid pissing us off, and it wasn't a good message.

                            We should have stayed out of it and let the chips fall where they may.
                            Dates are important on a history forum.

                            The F111 bombing was in 1986. Pan Am 103 was brought down in December 1988. The only thing that stopped Daffy committing further terrorist acts was the collapse of his sponsor, the Soviet Union.
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                              When did you become a conservative right-winger?
                              Depends on the issue.

                              http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...2&postcount=31

                              http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...6&postcount=33
                              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                                Dates are important on a history forum.

                                The F111 bombing was in 1986. Pan Am 103 was brought down in December 1988. The only thing that stopped Daffy committing further terrorist acts was the collapse of his sponsor, the Soviet Union.
                                The dates would matter if they were true.

                                K handed over the suspects, and maintained that the attack was mounted without his knowledge or approval. He even paid damages. This cost him a lot of status, but he did it.

                                So again: he had learned his lesson.

                                Facts: they're useful things.
                                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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