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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post
    I dunno Doc....Hillary got away with it.
    "Got away with it"... kind of implies guilt...
    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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    • #17
      UK, Germany, & France ‘grossly interfered’ in US election – Russian FM

      Leaders and top officials from the UK, Germany, and France have “grossly interfered” in US internal affairs, “campaigned” for Hillary Clinton, and openly “demonized” Donald Trump, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said.
      Speaking at a press conference following a meeting with Austrian counterpart Sebastian Kurz, Lavrov said Moscow “is tired" of accusations it meddled in the US election.

      Read more
      Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President-elect Donald Trump © ReutersThe art of the deal: What does Russia want from Donald Trump?
      In fact, Lavrov said, it is time to “acknowledge the fact” that it was the other way around.

      “US allies have grossly interfered in America’s internal affairs, in the election campaign,” Lavrov said.

      “We noticed that Angela Merkel, Francois Hollande, Theresa May, and other European leaders” did so. He added that official representatives of some of the European countries did not mince words, and essentially “demonized” Donald Trump during the election campaign.

      In August last year, German Foreign Minister Frank Walther Steinmeier called Trump a “hate preacher.”

      Reacting to Trump’s statement that parts of London are ‘no-go areas,’ UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said in December that Trump is “unfit” to be US president. Later on, however, Johnson said that Trump’s presidency might be a “moment of opportunity.”

      https://www.rt.com/news/374117-lavro...monized-trump/

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        Except that they told the truth about the Hillabeast.

        This wasn't some set-up, even the DNC admits it was true.

        I don't see it as a Russian op. Too much risk for no reward. Trump will replace the intel chiefs with his own people and the rift will be healed.

        The GOP doesn't see Trump as illegitimate. The DNC will never see him as anything but. The rest don't care.

        Occaam's razor: the emails were hacked from a unsecure server, likely with a disgruntled DNC staffer.

        That makes a lot more sense than the James Bond stuff.
        so you support the release of Manning and no charges being brought against Snowden they did public good according to a fairly significant part of the US population.

        what risk it is the internet where evidence is rarely good enough to make a case.

        as reward they got exactly what they wanted.

        no james bond stuff they were just doing normal intel gathering and decided to use it. Hell I am assuming we got similar stuff on everyone else in the world. This is what intel agencies do collect info. What different is how it was used this time.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by craven View Post
          no james bond stuff they were just doing normal intel gathering and decided to use it. Hell I am assuming we got similar stuff on everyone else in the world. This is what intel agencies do collect info. What different is how it was used this time.
          Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised all this fuss is because CIA/NSA/whatever are angry that someone is disturbing a playfield that used to be all theirs.
          Wisdom is personal

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          • #20
            In WW2 The Axis intelligence and the Allied intelligence probably used much the same techniques - does this make the Axis the equivalent of the Allies? Don't be naive
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Karri View Post
              Exactly, I wouldn't be surprised all this fuss is because CIA/NSA/whatever are angry that someone is disturbing a playfield that used to be all theirs.
              No Russia violated the rules having the info and using it to inform policy is one thing. weaponizing and using it this way is a different ball game.

              for example we spy they spy but spys usually do not kill each other as that is part of the rules. (at least for the major countries) When it does occur both sides start knocking off each other till they go um ok that enough of this and go back to business as usual.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                Except that they told the truth about the Hillabeast.

                This wasn't some set-up, even the DNC admits it was true.

                I don't see it as a Russian op. Too much risk for no reward. Trump will replace the intel chiefs with his own people and the rift will be healed.

                The GOP doesn't see Trump as illegitimate. The DNC will never see him as anything but. The rest don't care.

                Occaam's razor: the emails were hacked from a unsecure server, likely with a disgruntled DNC staffer.

                That makes a lot more sense than the James Bond stuff.
                PE Trump thinks they did.... Nice to see some healthy skepticism from you about PE Trump...

                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                “To talk of many things:
                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                Of cabbages—and kings—
                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                And whether pigs have wings.”
                ― Lewis Carroll

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by craven View Post
                  s o you support the release of Manning and no charges being brought against Snowden they did public good according to a fairly significant part of the US population.
                  Nope. They stole classified material. No comparison.

                  This situation is utterly different.

                  Originally posted by craven View Post
                  no james bond stuff they were just doing normal intel gathering and decided to use it. Hell I am assuming we got similar stuff on everyone else in the world. This is what intel agencies do collect info. What different is how it was used this time.
                  If you think that was the best dirt they could come up with on the Hillabeast, your theory might work.

                  But I really don't see it.

                  Especially since it did not become an issue until after she lost.
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                    Nope. They stole classified material. No comparison.

                    This situation is utterly different.



                    If you think that was the best dirt they could come up with on the Hillabeast, your theory might work.

                    But I really don't see it.

                    Especially since it did not become an issue until after she lost.
                    no it was an issue way before she lost it was drowned out by Trump
                    Secondly Obama hands were tied until after election otherwise if Hillary won people would of been saying oh Obama made this up for her to win.

                    Obama was in a no win situation on this one.

                    It just all they got. they hit up a wide array of government and semi government agencies and X number of people clicked a link when they shouldn't of.

                    Remember this was not a james bond operation just standard lets see what we can get. Then Putin goes hey look at what we got we can mess with Hillary. yadda yadda. DNC was just one of a number of targets initially

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      Nope. They stole classified material. No comparison.

                      This situation is utterly different.



                      If you think that was the best dirt they could come up with on the Hillabeast, your theory might work.

                      But I really don't see it.

                      Especially since it did not become an issue until after she lost.
                      Public good argument works for classified info as well as non classified (btw you saw this one coming right)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by craven View Post
                        no it was an issue way before she lost it was drowned out by Trump
                        Secondly Obama hands were tied until after election otherwise if Hillary won people would of been saying oh Obama made this up for her to win.

                        Obama was in a no win situation on this one.

                        It just all they got. they hit up a wide array of government and semi government agencies and X number of people clicked a link when they shouldn't of.

                        Remember this was not a james bond operation just standard lets see what we can get. Then Putin goes hey look at what we got we can mess with Hillary. yadda yadda. DNC was just one of a number of targets initially
                        Still boils down to the truth being told. If the Hillabeast wasn't cheating, if Bobo hadn't turned a blind eye, they wouldn't have had any issue.

                        The truth set us free.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by craven View Post
                          Public good argument works for classified info as well as non classified (btw you saw this one coming right)
                          I did.

                          Classified material is definitely not in the public interest. We lost assets, people ended up in prison, operations were compromised. Terrorism got a leg up because of those idiots.

                          The DNC emails released were not even non-classified, they were private emails. Non-governmental. Not even all that protected under law.

                          And contained truths which hurt no person but the guilty.

                          The Hillabeast cannot claim to be a legitimate candidate coming out of a rigged primary. Yet she almost became POTUS.

                          As I've said many times before: The truth came out, and the only thing the DNC wants to complain about is who ratted them out.

                          That is the issue here: the calm, bold, open repudiation of integrity by the DNC.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            I did.

                            Classified material is definitely not in the public interest. We lost assets, people ended up in prison, operations were compromised. Terrorism got a leg up because of those idiots.

                            The DNC emails released were not even non-classified, they were private emails. Non-governmental. Not even all that protected under law.

                            And contained truths which hurt no person but the guilty.

                            The Hillabeast cannot claim to be a legitimate candidate coming out of a rigged primary. Yet she almost became POTUS.

                            As I've said many times before: The truth came out, and the only thing the DNC wants to complain about is who ratted them out.

                            That is the issue here: the calm, bold, open repudiation of integrity by the DNC.
                            Server hacks from "somewhere in Russia" revealed DNC actions of negative ethics and/or potential illegality, yet the outrage is that Trump might have smiled at Putin while shaking his hand ... sometime within the past year or two.

                            Watch for that "falling sky" ...

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                            • #29
                              ...Allegations Against Russia Less Credible Every Day...
                              Not from where I sit. They only folks I've heard mention "not credible" are the Russians.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by craven View Post
                                No Russia violated the rules having the info and using it to inform policy is one thing. weaponizing and using it this way is a different ball game.

                                for example we spy they spy but spys usually do not kill each other as that is part of the rules. (at least for the major countries) When it does occur both sides start knocking off each other till they go um ok that enough of this and go back to business as usual.
                                I disagree entirely, and most likely we don't even know to what extend other countries are doing similar things and with what kind of proficiency. Russia is just starting, IMO, others have had time to perfect their ball game.
                                Wisdom is personal

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