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Allegations Against Russia Less Credible Every Day

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  • Allegations Against Russia Less Credible Every Day

    It would be easy for the Administration to provide evidence, I wonder why they aren't. Leaving it to the MSM to drive speculation doesn't seem like a good idea.

    Supposedly the evidence has been made public and is overwhelming, but try to find it and you’ll come up dry. Ask why, and you’ll be told that of course the evidence cannot be made public as that would risk revealing how the U.S. government came upon the information.

    Yet the same government feeds the U.S. media with the story that it intercepted communications of top Russian officials just after the U.S. election celebrating Trump’s victory. Did that story not run that risk?

    The U.S. government feeds the U.S. media (specifically the “free” press of the Washington Post whose owner makes more money from the CIA than from the Washington Post) that Russia has hacked Vermont’s electrical supply, and—because this was a claim that could be checked by an independent party—the secret methods of the CIA quickly turned out to be these: they had simply made the thing up.

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...ble-every-day/
    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post
    It would be easy for the Administration to provide evidence, I wonder why they aren't. Leaving it to the MSM to drive speculation doesn't seem like a good idea.

    Supposedly the evidence has been made public and is overwhelming, but try to find it and you’ll come up dry. Ask why, and you’ll be told that of course the evidence cannot be made public as that would risk revealing how the U.S. government came upon the information.

    Yet the same government feeds the U.S. media with the story that it intercepted communications of top Russian officials just after the U.S. election celebrating Trump’s victory. Did that story not run that risk?

    The U.S. government feeds the U.S. media (specifically the “free” press of the Washington Post whose owner makes more money from the CIA than from the Washington Post) that Russia has hacked Vermont’s electrical supply, and—because this was a claim that could be checked by an independent party—the secret methods of the CIA quickly turned out to be these: they had simply made the thing up.

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...ble-every-day/
    and to counter this argument one only needs to look at the Stuxnet operation by the US Until our agencies leaked like they always do no one could pin it on us although they thought it was us.

    Good hackers will leave evidence but rarely are they going to leave a smoking gun.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by craven View Post
      and to counter this argument one only needs to look at the Stuxnet operation by the US Until our agencies leaked like they always do no one could pin it on us although they thought it was us.

      Good hackers will leave evidence but rarely are they going to leave a smoking gun.
      While you are right, I have to say that if the Russians wanted to impact the election they would do a better job.

      Under the USSR they were world-class black ops, and the Hillabeast certainly has vast quantities of embarrassing dirt (if not felonies) in her closet.

      And I think they would have hit later in the campaign.
      Last edited by Arnold J Rimmer; 18 Jan 17, 13:19.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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      • #4
        and you consider your self a Marine. Why do you want to believe that all at once Russia/Putin has the best interest of the USA as a priority?

        Why are you defending Putin and Russian intentions?

        You a Marine? Gives me pause.
        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by craven View Post
          and to counter this argument one only needs to look at the Stuxnet operation by the US Until our agencies leaked like they always do no one could pin it on us although they thought it was us.

          Good hackers will leave evidence but rarely are they going to leave a smoking gun.

          Valid point about Stuxnet but I don't think it really applies here. Who ever hacked the emails did it from an unsecure server and very bad password protection.

          If anything, it would be a public service for the Administration to tell the people exactly how it was done and by who.
          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
            While you are right, I have to say that if the Russians wanted to impact the election they would do a better job.

            Under the USSR they were world-class black ops, and the Hillabeast certainly has vast quantities of embarrassing dirt 9if not felonies) in her closet.
            maybe that all they could find.

            Remember their goal was not to get Trump elected it was to make Hillary seem Illegitmate which was in line with Trumps position that the election is rigged.

            Instead they end up getting the guy they preferred and also made him seem illegitmate and have him bad mouthing the intel world so in the future if he says our intel agencies say X and that why I am doing Y why should anyone believe it. Russia will just point to his statements now.

            This is a major coup for Russia for little loss.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
              and you consider your self a Marine. Why do you want to believe that all at once Russia/Putin has the best interest of the USA as a priority?

              Why are you defending Putin and Russian intentions?

              You a Marine? Gives me pause.
              Stop with the personal insults John, it is getting really old.

              You know damn well that I am a Marine, stop questioning my service.

              There is no reason why the Administration can't show proof that the unsecured DNC server was hacked by Russia.
              "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by craven View Post
                Instead they end up getting the guy they preferred and also made him seem illegitmate and have him bad mouthing the intel world so in the future if he says our intel agencies say X and that why I am doing Y why should anyone believe it. Russia will just point to his statements now.

                This is a major coup for Russia for little loss.
                This is exactly why the Administration should release the information.
                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                  Valid point about Stuxnet but I don't think it really applies here. Who ever hacked the emails did it from an unsecure server and very bad password protection.

                  If anything, it would be a public service for the Administration to tell the people exactly how it was done and by who.
                  The public service part I agree about on the other hand anyone who worked for any company should know that stuff already.

                  I think part of the problem is in their jobs it tough to know what to click on and what not to. I would hate to have the amount of emails they have to deal with.

                  Password protection is tough one because humans suck at it for reasons of convience and biology ie what we can remember

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                    This is exactly why the Administration should release the information.
                    They cant release the info on why they know x without losing the ability to find out about something in the future.

                    I personally would want to keep our sources and methods in play.


                    This would of not been a big of issue if Trump was able to keep his ego in check and done the sensible thing and said sensible things. Damage is already done so why burn the assets

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by craven View Post
                      They cant release the info on why they know x without losing the ability to find out about something in the future.

                      I personally would want to keep our sources and methods in play.
                      If we were talking about classified, high security server, I agree.

                      This appears to have been a simple hack for unclassified information.

                      It is way to easy for a 'Remember the Maine' type action. Blindly believing any government or the MSM hasn't worked out to well in the past.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                        If we were talking about classified, high security server, I agree.

                        This appears to have been a simple hack for unclassified information.

                        It is way to easy for a 'Remember the Maine' type action. Blindly believing any government or the MSM hasn't worked out to well in the past.
                        oh I am talking about how they know it was the Russians.
                        That probally requires some high level stuff

                        we know North Korea hacked sony and they did not provide that much info on how they knew

                        China has hacked everyone and they never provide that much detail

                        why would this be different.

                        What is or isn't Cassi Belli on the internet is something we will struggle with for a very long time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                          If we were talking about classified, high security server, I agree.

                          This appears to have been a simple hack for unclassified information.

                          It is way to easy for a 'Remember the Maine' type action. Blindly believing any government or the MSM hasn't worked out to well in the past.
                          If there was classified material on the DNC email servers, a whole lot of non-Russians would be guilty of violating the Espionage Act.
                          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                            If there was classified material on the DNC email servers, a whole lot of non-Russians would be guilty of violating the Espionage Act.
                            I dunno Doc....Hillary got away with it.
                            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by craven View Post
                              maybe that all they could find.

                              Remember their goal was not to get Trump elected it was to make Hillary seem Illegitmate which was in line with Trumps position that the election is rigged.

                              Instead they end up getting the guy they preferred and also made him seem illegitmate and have him bad mouthing the intel world so in the future if he says our intel agencies say X and that why I am doing Y why should anyone believe it. Russia will just point to his statements now.

                              This is a major coup for Russia for little loss.
                              Except that they told the truth about the Hillabeast.

                              This wasn't some set-up, even the DNC admits it was true.

                              I don't see it as a Russian op. Too much risk for no reward. Trump will replace the intel chiefs with his own people and the rift will be healed.

                              The GOP doesn't see Trump as illegitimate. The DNC will never see him as anything but. The rest don't care.

                              Occaam's razor: the emails were hacked from a unsecure server, likely with a disgruntled DNC staffer.

                              That makes a lot more sense than the James Bond stuff.
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                              Comment

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