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  • #46
    Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
    Somebody fell asleep in history class.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - Leftist Movement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago - Leftist Movement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge - Leftist Movement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolu...y_United_Front - Leftist Movement

    And so forth...

    Back to school Fluffy. No safe space to protect you from knowledge.
    WWII NAZI Far Right

    IJ= Right Empre

    Conquest of South America Empire

    Moa Stalin, it equals out over times Frosty.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
      WWII NAZI Far Right

      The national SOCILIST german workers party.
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

      Comment


      • #48
        Goodwin is back .

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Tsar View Post
          The national SOCILIST german workers party.
          You still haven't learned.

          Nazi as well as Neo Nazi are from the far right. Even today in modern German politics neo and AfD are from the far right.

          If any country knows what NAZI are I think it would be the Germans and not talk show host in the US and their listeners.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-ri...ics_in_Germany

          Notice how it starts out with the NAZI. It's so typical of Americans to see socialist and cannot think past that. Blocks their thinking and fear to be associated with the Right being Nazi.
          Trump has his foreigners with Mexican and Muslim. Hitler had his Jews and Slavs. Let's hope that well be the end of the comparisons. Let's hope.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

          Comment


          • #50
            Goodwin again

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Tsar View Post
              The national SOCILIST german workers party.
              What's in a name? Many here don't think the Democratic Party is very democratic after the way that they treated Sanders. It's actions that count, not words.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                WWII NAZI Far Right

                IJ= Right Empre

                Conquest of South America Empire

                Moa Stalin, it equals out over times Frosty.
                Nazi's weren't far right. They really can't be called right or left so much as their own brand of crazy. Their socialism was a left wing belief while their promotion of imperialism was more right. The neo paganism and co-opting of the term Aryan in the mean time was just bat insanity. I specifically avoided citing them as a left wing murderer despite their socialist ideals for precisely this reason.

                And you're actually way off base with Imperial Japan. The movement to make Japan an overseas empire was a LIBERAL movement. The conservatives were isolationists. WWII was a culmination of politics coming from the Meiji era in which Japan rejected its conservative philosophy of keeping out of global affairs and started building an overseas empire similar to Europe. Those were progressives.

                Imperialism in the 16th century was neither left nor right. Imperialism was a centuries old status quo over which there was no political opposition.

                That said even if I do give you Nazis and Imperial Japan as a freebie its still two right wing example in an ocean of left wing dead. Communists turned mass murder into a science.

                The measure between modern left and modern right can be measured in walls. In America we have to build walls to keep people out. The Soviet Union, DPRK, and friends had to build walls to keep people IN.
                A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                  Nazi's weren't far right. They really can't be called right or left so much as their own brand of crazy. Their socialism was a left wing belief while their promotion of imperialism was more right. The neo paganism and co-opting of the term Aryan in the mean time was just bat insanity. I specifically avoided citing them as a left wing murderer despite their socialist ideals for precisely this reason.

                  And you're actually way off base with Imperial Japan. The movement to make Japan an overseas empire was a LIBERAL movement. The conservatives were isolationists. WWII was a culmination of politics coming from the Meiji era in which Japan rejected its conservative philosophy of keeping out of global affairs and started building an overseas empire similar to Europe. Those were progressives.

                  Imperialism in the 16th century was neither left nor right. Imperialism was a centuries old status quo over which there was no political opposition.

                  That said even if I do give you Nazis and Imperial Japan as a freebie its still two right wing example in an ocean of left wing dead. Communists turned mass murder into a science.

                  The measure between modern left and modern right can be measured in walls. In America we have to build walls to keep people out. The Soviet Union, DPRK, and friends had to build walls to keep people IN.
                  Deflection followed by straw men to try to hide the fact that Hitler and his clan were very much right wing, just as their new followers are. But what do the Germans know about their history that some cellar dweller in Missouri doesn't know the REAL truth.
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                    Deflection followed by straw men to try to hide the fact that Hitler and his clan were very much right wing, just as their new followers are. But what do the Germans know about their history that some cellar dweller in Missouri doesn't know the REAL truth.
                    A deflection involves changing the topic which I did not do. You brought up Nazis and Japan, I responded regarding Nazis and Japan.

                    A strawman involves repudiating an argument the other person did not make. You argued that Nazis and Imperial Japan were right wing. I responded that they weren't. This is not a strawman even if you feel I'm wrong because you actually made the argument.

                    In the mean time you have presented no evidence for your counterargument. If you wish to disprove me you will need to do the following:

                    1. Present a case that socialism in Germany was actually a right wing policy. This means providing evidence that Germany had a socialist system prior to the 20th century and that Hitler was trying to steer Germany back toward said cultural roots.

                    2. Present a case that the Showa era government in Japan was actually implementing policies counter to the Meiji era policy of strengthening Japan by emulating the European system of imperialism and creating an Asian power bloc, thus countering the progressive trend.

                    Remember, left wing doesn't mean "nice and peaceful" and right wing doesn't mean "fascist". A leftist movement means a movement to change the status quo. This makes left and right relative to particular time periods and cultures. Thus, Japan's move toward imperialism in the late 19th century was a left wing movement. Up until that point Japan was isolationist. Imperialism was the progressive thing to do in that culture.

                    In Europe socialism was the counterculture of the early 20th century. Thus, socialist/communist movements are likewise left wing pursuits. The Nazi part sold national socialism thus it was a predominantly left wing operation. Fascism was likewise a left wing pursuit, running contrary to the parliamentary democracies and monarchies that were predominant in European culture. The only right wing aspect of Hitler's campaign was his use of romanticized (and often misrepresented) appeals to classical German culture.

                    You may now present your counterpoint.
                    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      What's in a name? Many here don't think the Democratic Party is very democratic after the way that they treated Sanders. It's actions that count, not words.
                      They were socialist in action:

                      The 25-point Program of the NSDAP

                      1.We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination.

                      2.We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.

                      3.We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.

                      4.Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently, no Jew can be a member of the race.

                      5.Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.

                      6.The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore, we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities.

                      7.We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

                      8.Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.

                      9.All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.

                      10.The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently, we demand:

                      11.Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.

                      12.In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

                      13.We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

                      14.We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

                      15.We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

                      16.We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

                      17.We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

                      18.We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.

                      19.We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

                      20.The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

                      21.The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

                      22.We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

                      23.We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that:
                      a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;

                      b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;

                      c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications, or any influence on them, and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.

                      24.We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The common good before the individual good.

                      25.For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
                      Socialist policies highlighted.
                      A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                        What's in a name? Many here don't think the Democratic Party is very democratic after the way that they treated Sanders. It's actions that count, not words.

                        Sanders is a socialist there was no reason why the dems should have been nice to him. In fact they should have told him to run under that banner instead of theirs.
                        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                          Sanders is a socialist there was no reason why the dems should have been nice to him. In fact they should have told him to run under that banner instead of theirs.
                          Yet Trump was a Democrat for years and the Republicans accepted him. Why didn't they tell him to run as a Democrat?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                            Yet Trump was a Democrat for years and the Republicans accepted him. Why didn't they tell him to run as a Democrat?

                            The difference, for those of you who are to slow to grasp it, is that Sanders NEVER claimed to be a dem. He always said and still says that he is a socialist.
                            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                              The difference, for those of you who are to slow to grasp it, is that Sanders NEVER claimed to be a dem. He always said and still says that he is a socialist.
                              Personal philosophy and party membership are two different things.
                              PS- I may be slow but I'm fast enough to grasp the difference between to, too and two. That's second grade grammar. Maybe you should take a refresher course.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                                Personal philosophy and party membership are two different things.
                                PS- I may be slow but I'm fast enough to grasp the difference between to, too and two. That's second grade grammar. Maybe you should take a refresher course.

                                Yes grammar Nazi (must be a sure sign that you are losing the argument).
                                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                                Comment

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