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Illegal Immigrants and the horrible media spin on them.

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  • wolfhnd
    replied
    Being against illegal immigration does not make you a racist in the same way that hiring the best qualified people instead of using a quota system does not make you a racist.

    I think it should be made clear however that allowing some people from every social and economic class to immigrate is a reasonable proposition. A society is not made up of doctors and lawyers.

    It is also reasonable to hire people based on sex and race because there are some benefits to diversity. Those benefits are just exaggerated by progressives. Similarly there are benefits to diverse immigration. Who doesn't like authentic ethnic food for example.

    One of the things many people don't understand is that illegal immigrants attract a criminal class that often is of the same origin as the immigrants. Immigrants legal or illegal are easily exploited for a variety of reasons, language limitations, fear of law enforcement, employment opportunities etc. The Irish, Italian, and Jewish organized criminality are a few examples in legal immigrant communities historically. You only compound the problem with illegal immigrants. For people on the left the answer is to make all immigrants legal, for people on the right the answer is to manage immigration so that you can have effective law enforcement.

    I see no reason why a compromise cannot be reached other than the fact that within the progressive movement there are an unfortunately large number of cultural Marxist and on the right there are a small number of neo Nazis. In this case the right represents the lesser evil.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Paddybhoy View Post
    Can you cite that data please, you can't take Trumps word what facts he state because he has demonstratively proven that he talks made up **** all the time.

    Actual data

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...tion-and-crime
    While I get that together and prove it, which I've done before... Let's look at your article...

    Last sentence of the opening blather:

    If you live in a city that has become less dangerous in recent decades, a growing body of evidence suggests that you actually have immigrants to thank.

    This is the common fallacy of division made by proponents of amnesty and coddling illegal immigrants. That is, they lump them in with legal immigrants. This as I've pointed out dilutes any criminal activity by illegals as legal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes.
    But, even if that weren't true, we're talking only about illegal immigration not legal immigration so the two need to be separated here. Conflating them only confuses the issue.

    When Trump kicked off his campaign, last year, he accused Mexico of sending “rapists” and criminals to America. This was a patently outrageous claim, and there was no evidence behind it. According to Robert Sampson, a sociologist at Harvard and the former scientific director of the Project on Human Development in Chicago Neighborhoods, communities with high concentrations of immigrants do not suffer from outsized levels of violence.
    Same logical fallacy. Conflating legal and illegal immigration as if they were one and the same.

    One reason for this may be that immigrants have helped revitalize formerly desolate urban neighborhoods, starting businesses and lowering the prevalence of vacant buildings, where violence can take root. Another possible factor is that, contrary to Trump’s bigoted rhetoric, many immigrants are ambitious strivers, who are highly motivated to support their families and make a better life for their children. Undocumented immigrants may also be more fearful than legal residents of attracting police attention, which could get them deported.
    Then we get pure speculation as if this was factual reporting. Of course, there are some gratuitous ad hominems thrown in for good measure. After all, insulting the opposing argument is stock in trade for Progressives.

    Data isolating the level of crime among undocumented immigrants are*hard to come by, in part because, many suspect, undocumented-immigrant communities underreport crime, for fear of bringing law enforcement to their doors.
    A late admission by the writer that he hasn't got a clue or any evidence to support his hypothesis.

    I could go on, but the rest of the piece is mostly an ad hominem against Trump.

    But, let me start with an easily verified set of facts...

    There are about 15 million illegal immigrants in the US, give or take. This is out of a population of about 400 million. That means about 3 to 4% of the US population is illegal immigrants.

    Depending on which website you go to, about 12 to 15% of the total US prison population is illegal immigrants. About 30% of the federal prison population is illegal immigrants. 100% of those are people who committed some criminal act serious enough to be imprisoned for it.

    That means as a portion of the entire population they are overrepresented in prisons by somewhere between 3 and 5 times their numbers. This same argument is often applied to Blacks in particular by the same people who champion illegal immigration amnesty and open borders.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-..._b_883310.html

    As an example of that.

    Can't have it both ways.

    Illegals go to prison at a rate several times their numbers in the general population and at a far higher rate for their numbers than any other group. Prima facie evidence that they commit crimes at a much higher rate than legal citizens and legal immigrants.
    Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 26 Dec 16, 15:43.

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  • Paddybhoy
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    igrants. It is untrue for Illegal immigrants. They commit crimes at about double the rate of legal citizens and immigrants, not to include their 100% rate of being here illegally
    Can you cite that data please, you can't take Trumps word what facts he state because he has demonstratively proven that he talks made up **** all the time.

    Actual data

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...tion-and-crime

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
    There are many more in the Aleutians chain most suitable for populating with the criminals and drug mules.
    Funny I thought the Aleutians were in the Pacific

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  • SRV Ron
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    We have islands in the Pacific we're not using for anything... I suggest populating them with those who come from places that won't take them back. They can sit it out on some remote island where they can't cause trouble for our legal citizens and immigrants.
    There are many more in the Aleutians chain most suitable for populating with the criminals and drug mules.

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    Well I saved 10 grand on using latinos on my roofing job.

    They didn't rip me or my neighbors off. Hey, they did better job than a gringo would and finished in half the time. Hey man they came in under budget and at a considerable savings...

    It was done for five grand instead of the fifteen grand that was quoted. Do the math.
    The math is easy. You broke the law to save some bucks.

    Have you in the past voiced a strong distaste for sanctuary cities? What does that make?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    Well I saved 10 grand on using latinos on my roofing job.

    They didn't rip me or my neighbors off. Hey, they did better job than a gringo would and finished in half the time. Hey man they came in under budget and at a considerable savings...

    It was done for five grand instead of the fifteen grand that was quoted. Do the math.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Buy the book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Fem.../dp/1882342046

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    This seems to have lost interest but I think I need to explain in more detail.

    The psychology involved is fairly complex. What you will notice in a feminized society such as Sweden is a slow drift away from meritocracy. Overt competition is anathema to protected classes of people. Competition exists but it focuses on relationships not results.

    In these systems people rise to the top based on such characteristics as speaking skill (which is often erroneously equated with intelligence), saying the right things (often this means saying things that emotionally bind people not the truth), appearance (this can be tricky because it has more to do with style than what men may think of as good lucks), inclusiveness (again this can be confusing because it really equates with not being a threat to the pecking order), generosity (at first this appears to be a good quality but often becomes a meaningless ordeal of reciprocality), flattery (often very shallow and meaningless), commitment to principles (even when the logical objective is undermined), a belief that words are more important than actions (often this means a substitution of words for action).

    Without competition based on results a society cannot be a meritocracy and is fundamentally unjust. The most vulnerable members of society are males who's natural protective instincts are easily exploited in the name of fairness and have already been conditioned to accept their expendability by being available for military service, dangerous jobs and traditional roles in intense physical labor. Males may also be at a disadvantage do to relatively lower verbal intelligence when societies are not based on merit.
    Last edited by wolfhnd; 25 Dec 16, 23:45.

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  • wolfhnd
    replied
    I was adding my misogynistic comments, sorry, carry on.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post
    The problem with deportation is that the nation of origin has to accept them. It is better to prevent them coming in. Strong border patrol and a wall is needed. It worked for Hungary and it will work for us.

    Look at Australia. They have anti-migrant ships turning them away, totally opposite of the Europeans that pick up would-be-illegals at see and bring them to land. The Australians even take out ads telling people not to believe the human smugglers. "YOU WILL NOT STEP FOOT ON AUSTRALIAN SOIL".
    We have islands in the Pacific we're not using for anything... I suggest populating them with those who come from places that won't take them back. They can sit it out on some remote island where they can't cause trouble for our legal citizens and immigrants.

    Leave a comment:


  • Salinator
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    I don't care if they kick out anyone who has been here working hard and contributing to society even if they are illegal because frankly they were invited in by lax law enforcement. If we were going to remove dangerous parasites we would have to start with liberal college professors. When illegals get arrested for a felony then of course send them home. I also don't think a wall is necessary.

    What I dislike most is the anti democratic mindset of progressives on the left and right who refuse to make any effort to change the law before they start ignoring them. The immigration crisis we see is not about refugees fleeing political persecution as much as economics. The moral justification offered by liberals doesn't exist in most cases. At some point people have to be held accountable for their bad decisions. Society should have no more obligation to support someone who abandons their country as it does to support the offspring of single mothers pursuing their animal instincts.

    The people that should be arrested first are liberal hypocrites in places like Hollywood who hire illegal nannies and gardeners. The real criminals are the employers of illegals. The illegals themselves are the victims of liberal policies.
    The problem with deportation is that the nation of origin has to accept them. It is better to prevent them coming in. Strong border patrol and a wall is needed. It worked for Hungary and it will work for us.

    Look at Australia. They have anti-migrant ships turning them away, totally opposite of the Europeans that pick up would-be-illegals at sea and bring them to land. The Australians even take out ads telling people not to believe the human smugglers. "YOU WILL NOT STEP FOOT ON AUSTRALIAN SOIL".
    Last edited by Salinator; 25 Dec 16, 15:22.

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  • wolfhnd
    replied
    I don't care if they kick out anyone who has been here working hard and contributing to society even if they are illegal because frankly they were invited in by lax law enforcement. If we were going to remove dangerous parasites we would have to start with liberal college professors. When illegals get arrested for a felony then of course send them home. I also don't think a wall is necessary.

    What I dislike most is the anti democratic mindset of progressives on the left and right who refuse to make any effort to change the law before they start ignoring them. The immigration crisis we see is not about refugees fleeing political persecution as much as economics. The moral justification offered by liberals doesn't exist in most cases. At some point people have to be held accountable for their bad decisions. Society should have no more obligation to support someone who abandons their country as it does to support the offspring of single mothers pursuing their animal instincts.

    The people that should be arrested first are liberal hypocrites in places like Hollywood who hire illegal nannies and gardeners. The real criminals are the employers of illegals. The illegals themselves are the victims of liberal policies.

    The feminization of society may feel good but it is horrifically shallow. The real rape culture is the economic rape of hard working men and women who put a roof over the head of, food on the table of and die defending ingrates who can't control their reproductive urges and feel entitled to denigrate the very people who make their lives possible. You have no rights that violate someone else's. For generations American woman have had the most privileged life of any people that have walked the face of the earth. Like other privileged people they feel little remorse in destroying what generations have built having only superficially been involved in it's creation. It's the same behavior we see in rebellious rich kids. If you didn't earn it you shouldn't be able to give it away.
    Last edited by wolfhnd; 25 Dec 16, 15:21.

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  • 101combatvet
    replied
    Hear this tripe on NBR all the time, anyone will common sense can read through the BS propaganda except for the tree hugging liberals. Build the wall and kick the illegals out!

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  • flash
    replied
    And a very merry Christmas to you too TA!
    Just kidding mate, Only an insane person could argue with your thesis.
    All the best.

    Leave a comment:

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