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Reno boy shot by school cop had been bullied, beaten

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  • Reno boy shot by school cop had been bullied, beaten

    An emotionally distressed 14-year-old armed with a knife had been bullied and beaten and was trying to escape from a crowd of classmates this week who had gathered to capture video of an anticipated fight when a campus police officer shot the boy, his lawyer told The Associated Press on Friday.
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/law...ten/ar-AAlkHyy

    My concern is this, if I'm being attacked by a mob and pull a knife to defend myself, am I then at risk of automatically being shot by a cop with no grasp of the situation?
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

  • #2
    Automatically? No. Probably? Yes.

    The Kampus Kop did what he thought best in the situation. Too bad he didn't have a taser.

    Remember, with knives there's the 20 foot rule. It the guy with one is at or under 20 feet you probably can't shoot him before he stabs you with it...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      Automatically? No. Probably? Yes.

      The Kampus Kop did what he thought best in the situation. Too bad he didn't have a taser.

      Remember, with knives there's the 20 foot rule. It the guy with one is at or under 20 feet you probably can't shoot him before he stabs you with it...
      I have no problem with him drawing a gun in this situation, where he may have went wrong is not assessing or issuing a warning.

      What's important to learn from this whether the cop was in the right or not, is the fact that just because someone is bearing a weapon doesn't automatically mean he's the offender. People can draw in defense (knife or gun) and police need to be cognizant of that.
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
        http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/law...ten/ar-AAlkHyy

        My concern is this, if I'm being attacked by a mob and pull a knife to defend myself, am I then at risk of automatically being shot by a cop with no grasp of the situation?

        My concern is this, that people with no grasp of the situation will assume that the cop just shot a kid "automatically".

        The cop isn't supposed to "grasp" the attacker's motivation, he is supposed to "grasp" whether the attacker poses an immediate threat to others. From the videos, it appears reasonable to assume that the attacker was a threat to others.
        Given that he was apparently lunging at students with those knives, maybe "automatically" assuming the cop was wrong isn't the best idea.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #5
          We are to quick to pass judgement on situations we had no part of, we don't know what happened and the Cop probably didn't either, all he saw was a guy with a Knife, walk a mile in his moccasins before you condemn him.
          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
            I have no problem with him drawing a gun in this situation, where he may have went wrong is not assessing or issuing a warning.
            t
            What's important to learn from this whether the cop was in the right or not, is the fact that just because someone is bearing a weapon doesn't automatically mean he's the offender. People can draw in defense (knife or gun) and police need to be cognizant of that.
            It's a matter of trust. I'll drop and roll toward the cop and safety. (And hope he doesn't consider me a security risk.)

            I tend to trust the cops...
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
              My concern is this, that people with no grasp of the situation will assume that the cop just shot a kid "automatically".

              The cop isn't supposed to "grasp" the attacker's motivation, he is supposed to "grasp" whether the attacker poses an immediate threat to others. From the videos, it appears reasonable to assume that the attacker was a threat to others.
              Given that he was apparently lunging at students with those knives, maybe "automatically" assuming the cop was wrong isn't the best idea.
              I'm not assuming anything, I'm posing a question. A question I've always asked myself long before this even took place. Read my second post in this thread before making your own assumptions.
              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
              - Benjamin Franklin

              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                We are to quick to pass judgement on situations we had no part of, we don't know what happened and the Cop probably didn't either, all he saw was a guy with a Knife, walk a mile in his moccasins before you condemn him.
                Well if the cop truly didn't know then that's an issue worth discussing. But, I'm not trying to condemn him. See above and stop being so sensitive. What I'm questioning is how similar situations between adults in public would be handled. If I'm at risk of being shot by an officer for legally defending myself, then that's obviously a bit of a deterrence from drawing when I'm within my right.

                What is the protocol? Is what we saw there the norm?

                It seems like some sort of warning would be necessary, again given the possible circumstance that someone was only defending their selves.
                "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                - Benjamin Franklin

                The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                  I'm not assuming anything, I'm posing a question. A question I've always asked myself long before this even took place. Read my second post in this thread before making your own assumptions.
                  Your first post made your assumptions clear.
                  Those weren't erased by the second one.

                  I responded to the assumptions in the first post.

                  It is easy to second guess the actions of a cop from the safety of our homes, but the cop has a split second to make a tough decision.
                  It is perfectly reasonable for that cop to assume the kid swinging the knives was a threat to others.
                  It is unfortunate that the kid was shot, but demanding that the cop wait longer before shooting make make some people feel better, but that also means the cop is risking the lives of completely innocent people. I don't envy being in that position and wouldn't be so quick to assume that shooting was something he did "automatically".
                  Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                  Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                    Your first post made your assumptions clear.
                    Those weren't erased by the second one.

                    I responded to the assumptions in the first post.

                    It is easy to second guess the actions of a cop from the safety of our homes, but the cop has a split second to make a tough decision.
                    It is perfectly reasonable for that cop to assume the kid swinging the knives was a threat to others.

                    I don't envy being in that position and wouldn't be so quick to assume that shooting was something he did "automatically".
                    My first post posed a hypothetical. Yes, he did automatically shoot the kid, in the sense that he allegedly did not issue any warnings. He saw a kid with a knife and automatically fired. He did so because he obviously felt it necessary to subdue what he saw as a threat to others. My question, in a general sense is it appropriate to make that assumption?

                    There's no doubt his intents were pure and coming from the right place which is why I'm not trying to personally condemn him. The kid also should not have had a knife on him and the protection of children is always going to be different from that of adults. But, again it is a very interesting scenario that can play out in a similar manner for adults and thus worth asking.

                    It is unfortunate that the kid was shot, but demanding that the cop wait longer before shooting make make some people feel better, but that also means the cop is risking the lives of completely innocent people.
                    Yes, potentially it could put others at increased risk, but there's no perfect solution to any of this. There are pros and cons with whatever direction you go.

                    Personally, I would like the comfort in knowing I could defend myself without fearing if a cop is going to arrive and gun me down without issuing any orders to comply. You on the other hand want to completely rely on the cops for your safety and put your life in their hands. To each their own, but there's certainly nothing wrong with bringing up and discussing this conundrum.
                    Last edited by TactiKill J.; 12 Dec 16, 23:11.
                    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Tough call to make either way. Could he have hurt others I think will be the question if it goes to court. Or did he shoot to fast will be the other question for a jury to decide. I think its one of those cases where there is no clear black and white decision to please everyone.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        I have no problem with him drawing a gun in this situation, where he may have went wrong is not assessing or issuing a warning.

                        What's important to learn from this whether the cop was in the right or not, is the fact that just because someone is bearing a weapon doesn't automatically mean he's the offender. People can draw in defense (knife or gun) and police need to be cognizant of that.
                        He's waving knives at a crowd of students. He was also intent on engaging at least one of them.
                        So long as the officer has tried to identify himself to the weapon holding person and ordered them to put the weapon down, then when they don't comply things escalate pretty much automatically.

                        I know if I was standing there, gun drawn, and ordering this guy put the knives down and he didn't he'd get shot and probably more than once. That the officer fired and hit him one time to stop the action shows considerable restraint.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Given that a couple weeks ago a student with a knife was stopped in mid-rampage, this doesn't sound too bad.

                          Keep in mind that NO ONE is supposed to be running around campus with a knife. If this happened at the National Whittling Convention it might be noteworthy, but in a school?

                          And the most important fact of this situation is that it is an unverified claim as to the deceased's motivation, but the fact he was among other students with a knife is not.

                          There is no legal requirement in this sort of situation for the officer to do anything but to safeguard his own life and those who are threatened.

                          The use of force MUST (by USSC ruling) be judged by the officer's perception at the time he applied the force.

                          In this case a teen was armed with a naked knife and moving aggressively. A reasonable person would consider that subject to be a danger to others.
                          End of case.

                          Mark this down as a stupid move resulting in making a situation worse.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                          • #14
                            Tragic case, but children must not carry knives into school for any reason.
                            If the background story is true then it reflects very badly on the school and its staff for allowing this level of bullying.
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tragic case, but children must not carry knives into school for any reason.
                              If the background story is true then it reflects very badly on the school and its staff for allowing this level of bullying.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                              Comment

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