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Twilight Zone - Republicans No Longer Believe in Free Market?

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  • Twilight Zone - Republicans No Longer Believe in Free Market?

    Pop quiz: Attach the correct name either liberal President Obama or conservative Vice President-elect Mike Pence to the following quotes.

    "The free market is the greatest force for economic progress in human history. It's led to a prosperity and a standard of living unmatched by the rest of the world."

    "The free market has been sorting it out, and America's been losing."

    If you guessed that Obama uttered the second quote, you're wrong. That was Mike Pence at a press conference in Indiana after Donald Trump announced his deal with Carrier to keep 1,000 jobs from shifting to Mexico.
    Now of course Obama said one thing and did another, but what's most troubling is that Republicans are now openly opposing a free market economy.

    More concerning still, the startling amount of Republicans who no longer believe in such free market principles, or at least what little resemblance to a free market we once had.

    Is this a matter of sacrificing one's ideologies to support someone of the same political affiliation, or are we seeing a true shift to the left from Republicans on this issue? I'm not sure which would be worse.

    But here's the really interesting, and troubling, part. The Economist/YouGov poll asked the public whether they agreed with Pence. More than half of Republicans (57%) said they did. Just 23% disagreed.

    Stranger still, only 33% of Democrats agreed with Pence, while 33% disagreed.
    Where will this country be when the only party we could rely on for small government, free market policy and defense of the constitution are continuing to move further left on these core issues...

    But it really confuses things when a rock-ribbed conservative like Mike Pence whatever he intended to mean starts talking like a big-government liberal.

    In case there is any doubt in anyone's mind, Pence's statement could not have been more wrong. The free market is the reason why the United States has been so successful. It is, as Obama said, "the greatest force for economic progress in history." And the more it is allowed to function, the better and more prosperous everyone in this country will be.

    Period.
    http://www.investors.com/politics/ed...e-free-market/
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

  • #2
    It is not and really never has been "a free economy", so it's high time the big boys noticed and did something about it. And since it;s been Democrats for the last eight years that created a totally failing economy, you need to focus on them and not the Republicans.

    And while you're at it, ask yourself why Obama subsidized so many failing industries if it was truly a "free economy".

    Comment


    • #3
      The problem with the OP is Pence's statement is taken out of context. The free market is sorting it out, because America is piling on the regulations and taxes that kill the free market. So, business is responding by moving somewhere else.
      His statement is about people like Obama who think that more government regulation and control of the market and taxes that are about "Fair and Equal" will improve society more than a capitalist oriented, free market will.

      Comment


      • #4
        Demagogues are always opposed to the free market. Bread and circuses is their strategy.
        "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
          Demagogues are always opposed to the free market. Bread and circuses is their strategy.
          It is, but things like NAFTA and all of the "special favored trading partner" agreements have killed the alleged "free market" long ago.

          In a true "free market" economy many thriving nations would have starved to death long ago. The entire global economy is propped up by a wall of trade agreements, tariff rates and other economic "accommodations" between nations.

          Take a look at how Japan deliberately shuts out American vehicles and America beef as only one small example. Where's the "free" in that? And yet we allow the Japanese free access to American markets?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            It is not and really never has been "a free economy", so it's high time the big boys noticed and did something about it. And since it;s been Democrats for the last eight years that created a totally failing economy, you need to focus on them and not the Republicans.

            And while you're at it, ask yourself why Obama subsidized so many failing industries if it was truly a "free economy".
            It's not and I made note of that, my point is we should be taking action to move towards a more free market and not the opposite.

            Democrats are on the way out and we know what their objective is when it comes to the economy. They deliver on what their ideologies are, republicans of late I don't believe have. There's no point in me bashing them for carrying out what their party stands for. All I can do that's going to be effective is focus my votes and resources outside of the party to keep them from power. But again, what does that mean if the alternative is just slightly less left-leaning.

            In other words, we can't change the democratic party. There's no sense in fighting that fight. Getting republicans to act like republicans is a more realistic goal and something worth fighting for.
            "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
            - Benjamin Franklin

            The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              The problem with the OP is Pence's statement is taken out of context. The free market is sorting it out, because America is piling on the regulations and taxes that kill the free market. So, business is responding by moving somewhere else.
              His statement is about people like Obama who think that more government regulation and control of the market and taxes that are about "Fair and Equal" will improve society more than a capitalist oriented, free market will.
              That's not at all what he was saying. He very clearly states the free market HAS been sorting it out and then implies that it hasn't worked.

              "Corporate America is going to have to understand that we have to take care of our workers also.
              - Trump.
              Last edited by TactiKill J.; 10 Dec 16, 16:33.
              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
              - Benjamin Franklin

              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                It is, but things like NAFTA and all of the "special favored trading partner" agreements have killed the alleged "free market" long ago.

                In a true "free market" economy many thriving nations would have starved to death long ago. The entire global economy is propped up by a wall of trade agreements, tariff rates and other economic "accommodations" between nations.

                Take a look at how Japan deliberately shuts out American vehicles and America beef as only one small example. Where's the "free" in that? And yet we allow the Japanese free access to American markets?
                And Japan has suffered for it while the US has gained.

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)

                Today Japan imports more than it exports.
                Last edited by Surrey; 10 Dec 16, 17:16.
                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                  That's not at all what he was saying. He very clearly states the free market HAS been sorting it out and then implies that it hasn't worked.
                  Yes, it has and not in America's favor. That's because the free market is bigger than just the US. US companies are fleeing high taxes, and tons of regulation, just as companies are fleeing California for other parts of the US for the same reasons.

                  The free market sorts itself out when the government intrudes. If anything, the more government intrudes the more the free market goes around government. That's why in Statist nations where central planned economies and the government runs everything black markets abound. Venezuela is a perfect example because it happened so quickly there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    California's MO is, if it works tax it, if it doesn't work,subsidize it

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      Yes, it has and not in America's favor. That's because the free market is bigger than just the US. US companies are fleeing high taxes, and tons of regulation, just as companies are fleeing California for other parts of the US for the same reasons.

                      The free market sorts itself out when the government intrudes. If anything, the more government intrudes the more the free market goes around government. That's why in Statist nations where central planned economies and the government runs everything black markets abound. Venezuela is a perfect example because it happened so quickly there.
                      A free market is not a free market when the government intrudes. The bailout would be another example of government intrusion in which the market was not allowed to sort itself out as a result. If it can't naturally sort itself out, it's not a free market.

                      The solution is simple, drop corporate taxes and get out of the way.

                      It's really sad to see what the republican party is turning into, I don't expect to see this type of argument coming from you.
                      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ah, the wailings of butt-hurt snowflakes...sweet music...
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                        • #13
                          There is a difference between free market and open borders .

                          Other point : there is no such thing as a totally free market : a lot of sectors of the American industry and agriculture are subsidized by the US government and would collaps without these subsidies .

                          It is the same in Europe and other countries .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                            A free market is not a free market when the government intrudes.

                            Wrong : a free market without government intrusion does not exist : since the US exist, there are tariffs, import taxes and export subsidies.

                            Does that mean that there is no free market in the US ? : no

                            Since more than 200 years the US government is subsidizing the media with more than $1 billion during the last years .

                            Does that mean that there is no free market in the US ? No


                            A free market is a market that is not led by the government.

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