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  • Double think?

    In the presidential campaign DT refered to Global Warming as a con or a scam but in the planning application for a huge wall at his Irish golf club the following is given ""the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

  • #2
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    In the presidential campaign DT refered to Global Warming as a con or a scam but in the planning application for a huge wall at his Irish golf club the following is given ""the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".
    As usual, are we speaking about the natural cycle of climatic flux/variation, currently warming away from an ice-age(versus cooling towards an ice-age) or the to be proven case that an 0.001% rise of CO2 vs total dry atmosphere (allegedly mostly human caused) is the cause of "global warming"?

    African or European swallow?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by MarkV View Post
      In the presidential campaign DT refered to Global Warming as a con or a scam but in the planning application for a huge wall at his Irish golf club the following is given ""the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".
      Practical think...something rare in the British Isles.

      Did he pass any laws restricting your use of energy to heat yourself this winter? If not, don't worry about it. Let armor do the worrying...he's good at it.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MarkV View Post
        In the presidential campaign DT refered to Global Warming as a con or a scam but in the planning application for a huge wall at his Irish golf club the following is given ""the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".
        Never applied for a building permit that was at odds with the city or county have you?

        Comment


        • #5
          Applications of all sorts are written for the recipient, not reality.

          Much like job applications and first dates, you are trying to anticipate and neutralize target objections.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here's an example of what I mean...

            I wanted to build retaining walls on a lot because it was very rugged and that was the only way to get a large enough pad for a house on it. I submitted plans for these. The county came back and wanted me to do a design like below, because that was their "standard" for retaining walls.



            I didn't want a big foot of concrete behind the wall for two reasons:
            1. I'd have to dig a huge mass of dirt and move car sized boulders to get it in.
            2. I didn't want the foot to hold water and prevent drainage. That could cause problems later.

            What I wanted was a buttressed retaining wall. So, I had to get an engineer to stamp off on my drawings. That was a waste of $300 since that's literally all he did.



            My design used block columns that were the same size all the way to the top of the wall. With the engineer stamp they bought of on it. But, that was a fight I didn't need. After all, the design submitted was the one approved in the end. The only difference was me being forced to pay $300 because the county said they couldn't "Evaluate a non-standard design."

            Comment


            • #7
              We have heard it all before noble, wise, politicians are virtuous and will keep us safe while evil capitalist businessmen are evil duplicit clowns and dangerous.

              In our feminized society saying the right things, ideological faithfulness, gentleness, verbal skills, and appearance trumps indifference to distracting irrelevant emotions, necessary compromise, healthy competitiveness, blunt honesty, non verbal logic, and practical functionality.

              Trump is an egotistical alpha male and in the 21st century something of an endangered species. Just when the left thought they were on the verge of wiping the species out Trump is elected President.

              For everyone who wanted to marry the state, have a protector instead of being responsible for their own welfare, enforce their will by manipulation, be free of the dirty hard work of essential services, prefer poetry and art to hard work, think giving the fruits of someone else's labor away is virtuous, have a predisposition for collective censorship, argues from faith, think males are expendable, confuse equality and equitable, transfer allegiance to out groups easily, and project privilege and entitlement onto others Trump is not their man.
              We hunt the hunters

              Comment


              • #8
                Whatever still smacks of hypocrisy
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Your posts are highly condescending to tens of millions of people and betray your character.

                  Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                  We have heard it all before noble, wise, politicians are virtuous and will keep us safe while evil capitalist businessmen are evil duplicit clowns and dangerous.

                  In our feminized society saying the right things, ideological faithfulness, gentleness, verbal skills, and appearance trumps indifference to distracting irrelevant emotions, necessary compromise, healthy competitiveness, blunt honesty, non verbal logic, and practical functionality.

                  Trump is an egotistical alpha male and in the 21st century something of an endangered species. Just when the left thought they were on the verge of wiping the species out Trump is elected President.

                  For everyone who wanted to marry the state, have a protector instead of being responsible for their own welfare, enforce their will by manipulation, be free of the dirty hard work of essential services, prefer poetry and art to hard work, think giving the fruits of someone else's labor away is virtuous, have a predisposition for collective censorship, argues from faith, think males are expendable, confuse equality and equitable, transfer allegiance to out groups easily, and project privilege and entitlement onto others Trump is not their man.
                  Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                  Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                  Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                  Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                    Whatever still smacks of hypocrisy
                    Trump didn't write the sea wall application documents. He probably never even read them. So, this is not hypocrisy.

                    This is "boiler plate" language...
                    "the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".

                    Variations of this phrase are abundant in government literature...
                    projected impacts of climate change, including erosion from rising seas, changes in storms frequency and intensity

                    Since the government believes in the AGW myth, permit applications have to account for government's belief in that myth.

                    Furthermore, irrespective of one's views on anthropogenic climate change, "the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming *can* increase the rate of erosion". A lot of things *can* happen. Yellowstone *can* erupt. A giant asteroid *can* crash into the Earth. Tsunamis *can* wipe golf courses off of maps.

                    However, the reason they wanted to build the seawall was the fact that "storms [in 2014] caused significant erosion of sand dunes at the course"...
                    [...]

                    The Trump International hotel and golf links at Doonbeg on the west coast of County Clare was acquired in 2014.

                    Storms that year caused significant erosion of sand dunes at the course and the Trump organisation submitted plans to Clare County Council to build a two-mile (2.8km) limestone wall to limit the impact of the seas.

                    At 4m in height and 20m wide, the 200,000-tonne structure would have required some 200,000 tonnes of rock for construction.

                    The 10m wall would protect against the wasting impacts of the seas, the original application said.

                    The documents went on to detail that "the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".

                    The wall would also benefit the community, the documents said, by way of the coastal protection works.

                    While the plan was heartily supported by many local residents and businesses, there was considerable opposition from environmental groups. There was concern that the wall would impact the tiny, EU protected whorl snail, Vertigo angustior.

                    Six months ago, the local authority went back to the Trump group for further information on how the structure would impact the Carrowmore dunes special area of conservation, but none was forthcoming.

                    "We got notification from the applicant yesterday that they were withdrawing their application," a council spokesman told BBC News.

                    They Trump group indicated that they had pulled their plans because the planning process would have taken way too long.

                    [...]

                    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38228037

                    The threat of sea level rise was so mythical, that the Trump group withdrew its plans to build the seawall when the bureaucracy proved to be too thick.
                    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      Here's an example of what I mean...

                      I wanted to build retaining walls on a lot because it was very rugged and that was the only way to get a large enough pad for a house on it. I submitted plans for these. The county came back and wanted me to do a design like below, because that was their "standard" for retaining walls.



                      I didn't want a big foot of concrete behind the wall for two reasons:
                      1. I'd have to dig a huge mass of dirt and move car sized boulders to get it in.
                      2. I didn't want the foot to hold water and prevent drainage. That could cause problems later.

                      What I wanted was a buttressed retaining wall. So, I had to get an engineer to stamp off on my drawings. That was a waste of $300 since that's literally all he did.



                      My design used block columns that were the same size all the way to the top of the wall. With the engineer stamp they bought of on it. But, that was a fight I didn't need. After all, the design submitted was the one approved in the end. The only difference was me being forced to pay $300 because the county said they couldn't "Evaluate a non-standard design."
                      Proper retaining wall design is all about geology, engineering is about efficiency. The problem is small projects do not justify the expense of a geological survey and site specific engineering. The compromise is the adoption of universal standards. Those standards eliminate the need to hire engineers as inspectors. Your contribution of $300 helps keep government smaller and efficient.

                      Permits and inspections could be eliminated but law suits cannot and every time a structure fails the public rushes to find blame. The courts are inherently inefficient and civil cases biased against defendants. There are limitations to making complex societies efficient.

                      Every thing in life is a cost benefit assessment. We are very poor however at doing the calculations required when the cost and benefits are abstract. What is the value of a life? How much freedom are you willing to exchange for security? What are the limitations on private ownership in a society that has evolved past self sufficiency?
                      We hunt the hunters

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                        Proper retaining wall design is all about geology, engineering is about efficiency. The problem is small projects do not justify the expense of a geological survey and site specific engineering. The compromise is the adoption of universal standards. Those standards eliminate the need to hire engineers as inspectors. Your contribution of $300 helps keep government smaller and efficient.
                        Wrong on all counts. Proper design is all about engineering. Retaining a certain weight of soil is what it's about. The problem with government in this case is one of legality and responsibility. Government wants to have control over construction of things like retaining walls but refuses to take responsibility for their proper design.
                        Instead they substitute a "One size fits all policy" and force anyone doing anything different to pay out-of-pocket to justify it. They refuse to have in place engineers or other experts that are capable of or allowed to evaluate designs. Instead, a bureaucrat determines if the design meets the government's narrow definitions or not and if not demands that the person or company wanting to do something different pay for that themselves while the government retains the right to approve or disapprove the project.
                        Classic shifting of responsibility while retaining authority.

                        Permits and inspections could be eliminated but law suits cannot and every time a structure fails the public rushes to find blame. The courts are inherently inefficient and civil cases biased against defendants. There are limitations to making complex societies efficient.
                        And, that is a big part of the problem: Liars... err... lawyers. Legal paper pushers who haven't got a clue about the technical side of what's being argued. The problem here is one of lawyers making it difficult when it really doesn't need to be.

                        Every thing in life is a cost benefit assessment. We are very poor however at doing the calculations required when the cost and benefits are abstract. What is the value of a life? How much freedom are you willing to exchange for security? What are the limitations on private ownership in a society that has evolved past self sufficiency?
                        Well, we can start at the extremes and narrow it down. I for one don't want or desire 100% safe anything. It is impossible to achieve.

                        As for the "value of life?" How many starving kids in Africa do you send money to? We can easily put a price on life and it's pretty damn low. The only time it is higher is when it's personal. Your life matters to you. It doesn't particularly matter so some guy in India however.
                        Increasing private ownership ensures that people take personal responsibility for things. Renters, and other non-owners have lessened or no reason to take personal responsibility. Socialism works on the idea that personal responsibility will occur even when you have no stake in the outcome. That's what makes it fail so miserably as an economic system.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                          Whatever still smacks of hypocrisy
                          Only in your country, which isn't part of America...yet.

                          Shakespeare said it for you: "Methinks thou doth protest too much..."
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                            In the presidential campaign DT refered to Global Warming as a con or a scam but in the planning application for a huge wall at his Irish golf club the following is given ""the rising sea levels and increased storm frequency and wave energy associated with global warming can increase the rate of erosion".
                            You must remember...you are guilty of a great character flaw...anything Trump or his minions say or do is OK/fine/all right/the right thing to do-disagreeing with Trump and his minions is wrong-no matter what it is.

                            Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Trump
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Wrong on all counts. Proper design is all about engineering.
                              You can't engineer that for which you don't know the properties. Engineering is all about effectiveness for the least cost. While there is always a margin of error if cost is not a factor anyone can engineer.
                              We hunt the hunters

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