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Trump Says "Cancel Air Force One!"

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  • #16
    Boeing Said to Offer Talks on Air Force One After Trump Tweets

    Boeing Co. executives told officials on President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team that the cost of a new version of Air Force One could be lowered if the government agrees to reduce its requirements for the plane, people familiar with the discussions said.

    The company’s executives reached out to Trump’s staff after the Republican said on Twitter on Tuesday that plans for a new Air Force One should be canceled because of "ridiculous" costs. The missive put in Trump’s sights both a plane that is one of the most visible symbols of the American presidency and a firm that is the nation’s largest exporter.

    [...]

    The Boeing executives who contacted Trump officials suggested that the price of the new planes could be reduced if the Air Force and Secret Service revise their specifications for the aircraft, the people familiar with the discussions said. The company was not told in advance that Trump would tweet about the plane, the people said.

    [...]

    The Air Force said last year that it was giving Boeing the contract without competition because its plane is the only one manufactured in the U.S. “that when fully missionized meets the necessary critically important capabilities” that a president needs. But the service also said it would encourage other companies to bid for the special equipment needed to convert the aircraft for presidential use.

    [...]

    Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican who heads the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he counted himself among those who think there are too many bells and whistles on Air Force One. “I think it ought to be reviewed,” he told reporters at the Capitol. “I think it’s a legitimate concern.”

    [...]

    Trump previously held stock in Boeing but sold all his equity holdings in companies in June, Miller said.

    [...]

    Tuesday’s tweet wasn’t the first time Trump has mentioned Boeing. At a February rally in South Carolina, where the company makes the 787 Dreamliner, he said Boeing “is building massive plants in China.”

    To bolster its standing in the Asian nation, Boeing recently announced plans to open a plant there to install seats on single-aisle 737 jetliners being delivered to Chinese airlines.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ar...weets-iwe6mz3j

    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
      AF1 isn't exactly a 747 in anything but the very basics of the layout and the outside appearance.

      Here's an idea, if you want a higher-performing and more secure ride for the President.....build a modified C17. It's a base airframe with all the performance AF1 needs already built in, as they come capable of all weather flight, low altitude performance, high performance takeoffs and landings, and so on, plus the full countermeasure suite. It's got plenty of capacity to modify the entire interior to match AF1 needs. Skip cabin windows, they're a weakness since they pierce the skin and create a vulnerability....a few external cameras (with pan and zoom no less) and screens for the President or entourage to see what they want in flight or on the tarmac. Hell, you can line the airframe in a ballistic blanket for the passenger areas to protect from small arms fire and shrapnel. As for the size difference, I guess you need to cut down on the ridiculousness of the entourage, or bring in part of them in the 2nd plane instead.....if AF1 breaks down then they just have to fly back commercial (the poor snowflakes).

      It uses an existing production line.....it's a combat operations proven airframe capable of flying in some really sh*tty conditions (like Iraqi sandstorms....saw it on the regular doing short-field takeoffs with 2 x MRAPS onboard). The 'accessory planes' that come with the Pres can all be the same airframe which means more 'confusion' for a potential enemy trying to acquire AF1 on radar (as opposed to 747s which will be leaving the skies before this current project ages out). And it sets a useful precedent for future AF1 purchases that they will use something based on the existing heavy or heavy-mid transport rather than a full-up custom job.
      The base line cost of the C-17 and 747 are basically the same. Low 200 millions. C-17 is about $218 million and 747 is about 230 million. What cost a lot is what makes AF-1 actually AF-1. Those cost would be the same for both aircraft. So the basic net savings will be about 0 with this option.
      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
      “To talk of many things:
      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
      Of cabbages—and kings—
      And why the sea is boiling hot—
      And whether pigs have wings.”
      ― Lewis Carroll

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        The base line cost of the C-17 and 747 are basically the same. Low 200 millions. C-17 is about $218 million and 747 is about 230 million. What cost a lot is what makes AF-1 actually AF-1. Those cost would be the same for both aircraft. So the basic net savings will be about 0 with this option.
        Ahh... But the C-17 can do this...



        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
          Ahh... But the C-17 can do this...



          Yeah, they do that once every couple years for a practice, once. They film it... goes on web. Real life. Nope.
          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
          “To talk of many things:
          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
          Of cabbages—and kings—
          And why the sea is boiling hot—
          And whether pigs have wings.”
          ― Lewis Carroll

          Comment


          • #20
            Finally someone with common sense stands up for what is right!

            The guy does more in a blink of an eye than Obama has done in his lifetime.
            My worst jump story:
            My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
            As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
            No lie.

            ~
            "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
            -2 Commando Jumpmaster

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              The base line cost of the C-17 and 747 are basically the same. Low 200 millions. C-17 is about $218 million and 747 is about 230 million. What cost a lot is what makes AF-1 actually AF-1. Those cost would be the same for both aircraft. So the basic net savings will be about 0 with this option.
              This from the guy who hasn't been within ten miles of Air Force One.
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                This from the guy who hasn't been within ten miles of Air Force One.
                Strange, if one gets close to AF-1 suddenly the know about the cost and it's abilities... I guess.

                Reading. Try it. Of make another unsubstantiated claim as usual.
                “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                “To talk of many things:
                Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                Of cabbages—and kings—
                And why the sea is boiling hot—
                And whether pigs have wings.”
                ― Lewis Carroll

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                  Yeah, they do that once every couple years for a practice, once. They film it... goes on web. Real life. Nope.
                  I see them do this about once a year at Ellington Field...

                  It's just on tarmac instead of dirt...
                  Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                    The C17 is quite a bit slower and shorter ranged than the 747-8. Cruise speed is 450kts vs 493kts. Unrefueled range is 5600nm vs 7700nm. You also have to consider the image of the POTUS flying around in a cargo plane...not good. The new AF1 will be good for the next 30 years.
                    Edited to add--the C17 is also quite a bit shorter.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                      Strange, if one gets close to AF-1 suddenly the know about the cost and it's abilities... I guess.

                      Reading. Try it. Of make another unsubstantiated claim as usual.
                      Believes the liberal media. Hilarious!
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                        I see them do this about once a year at Ellington Field...

                        It's just on tarmac instead of dirt...
                        I used to like watching the UK C-130's take off from Basrah Airbase. They had all kinds of take off profiles based on threat and pilot preference. A couple times a week one would take off, roar down the strip hardly gaining any altitude, the pilot would then basically do a 120-180 degree turn with one wing tip pointing straight down and the other straight up. They would then hit the power and climb in an unexpected direct... Fun to watch, but for the passengers it was a wild ride.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                          Believes the liberal media. Hilarious!
                          Nope.

                          Still can't post anything to back up your point. Noted.
                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                            Nope.

                            Still can't post anything to back up your point. Noted.
                            Go help Stein with her recount.
                            My worst jump story:
                            My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                            As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                            No lie.

                            ~
                            "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                            -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                              Go help Stein with her recount.
                              Zero. Got it.
                              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                              “To talk of many things:
                              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                              Of cabbages—and kings—
                              And why the sea is boiling hot—
                              And whether pigs have wings.”
                              ― Lewis Carroll

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                                The base line cost of the C-17 and 747 are basically the same. Low 200 millions. C-17 is about $218 million and 747 is about 230 million. What cost a lot is what makes AF-1 actually AF-1. Those cost would be the same for both aircraft. So the basic net savings will be about 0 with this option.
                                That's comparing apples to oranges.

                                A baseline 747 is a commercial passenger plane. A baseline C-17 is a military spec hauler. The specs to bring a 747 up to a C-17 standards is what will cost more than the baseline C-17.
                                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                                Comment

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