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Owner Was Target, but Restaurant Workers Are Swept Up in Immigration Raids

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    Who said anything about race? People who are here legally and not paying taxes aren't the issue,nor are they a justification for ignoring the laws on immigration.

    If you feel yours is a good solution, then support a change in the law. Until then, we should apply the law equally. That means we shouldn't let the people who come here illegally to get priority over those who are honestly trying to follow the law.

    Additionally, your solution is similar to the amnesty that was tried in the 1980s. That made the problem worse, not better.
    Exactly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Both black and white American citizens have under the table paying jobs. My solution works out...just have the illegals pay back taxes.
    Who said anything about race? People who are here legally and not paying taxes aren't the issue,nor are they a justification for ignoring the laws on immigration.

    If you feel yours is a good solution, then support a change in the law. Until then, we should apply the law equally. That means we shouldn't let the people who come here illegally to get priority over those who are honestly trying to follow the law.

    Additionally, your solution is similar to the amnesty that was tried in the 1980s. That made the problem worse, not better.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Sorry, I have no sympathy for people who built a life on false premises.

    We already have far too many undocumented Democrats, as many as 2 million voted for Hillary.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdrianE
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    . But IMO the USA should not deport someone for simply being in the USA illegally....
    Of course they should. It hurts those who obeyed the law and immigrated legally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jose50
    replied
    ...it's illegal to be an illegal

    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    I would entertain studying Mexico's policies, as I would with any other country. But IMO the USA should not deport someone for simply being in the USA illegally...and under Barack Obama we have had folks arrested for simply being in the country "illegally" NOT for committing a violent crime or selling illegal narcotics. I might agree with deporting a violent illegal back to his/her home country...but then again our prisons are hungry for more and more inmates so I'm surprised the Pro Prison industry hawks would not argue to go ahead and put the violent illegals in a US prison(we do have to find a way to pay the salaries/pensions of US prison guards) Being that the USA is the strongest and smartest country in the world we should be able to find a way to get the illegals to pay back taxes. We should be able to find a way to make citizens out of the so called illegals living in the USA.
    You just don't get it.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    That cant be the case that most illegals cant read and write, look at the numbers,

    http://latinostories.com/Latin_Ameri...eracy_Rate.htm
    This is a false equivalence. You assume a cross section equal to the home country's population immigrates illegally. This is not true. Most illegal immigrants are not ones that are reasonably well educated from their home country. Those people stay where they are because they have jobs and can make a decent living.
    The poor and otherwise dispossessed are the ones that become illegal immigrants overwhelmingly. That's why the vast majority of illegals are illiterate or semi-literate.

    Perhaps a good # of illegals can not read or write english...but they will make it just fine in one of those spanish majority speaking enclaves in the USA...no different then how we used to have majority italian speaking or majority polish speaking neighborhoods in the USA.
    No, the overwhelmingly are transients, homeless, or end up criminals. That's just what happens when you have no skills, an inability to read and write, and are... well, stupid.

    Its simply a propaganda viewpoint that in general the illegals are violent idiots.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

    Likewise, If I said that general speaking illegals are angels...it would be propaganda.
    Wrong. Most jail systems don't separate their statistics by illegal and legal immigrants. They simply lump ethnicities together. That dilutes the sample. Arizona, Oklahoma, and parts of Virginia, for example don't. In those systems illegal immigrants are over represented by about double their number in the general population.
    The pro-illegal organizations always dilute the sample by lumping all immigrants, legal and illegal together. This makes the illegal population in prisons look much smaller.


    We could possibly deport the violent illegals. But I take issue with deporting someone who is simply in the USA to find a better job..again the solution there is to order the so called illegal to pay back taxes. And saying so called illegal is not idiotic....just trying to be humane here...nothing wrong with using the term so called illegal. Saying so called illegal has zero to do with Progressive, Conservative or liberal values.
    I really have little heartburn with letting those who are doing the right thing stay. I'd estimate their numbers at about 1 in 5 or 6 (eg., about 15 to 20% of the total illegal population).
    For example, in Arizona the number of illegals attending universities in the state numbers in the dozens. This isn't a particularly well-educated or intelligent bunch we're talking about. But, the world needs ditch diggers too. So, they're working and not a problem... I could see a path to letting them stay. Arrest and deport the other 5 or 6 that aren't for every one that gets to stay.

    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    I would entertain studying Mexico's policies, as I would with any other country.
    Mexico's system towards illegal immigrants is pretty simple: YOU HAVE NOTHING COMING!

    They are not allowed to get any sort of government ID or assistance beyond emergency medical. They can't own land or buy real estate. They can't open bank accounts or do most other financial transactions.
    If arrested by the police they get treated pretty roughly. They will be deported too, guaranteed.

    In Mexico, illegals literally have nothing coming.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The key to this issue is the term "illegal". It means what it says.

    No one here is to blame except the illegals themselves and the manager who preyed on them

    You might want to check out how Mexico treats illegals who enter their country. They treat them as criminals right from the start.
    I would entertain studying Mexico's policies, as I would with any other country. But IMO the USA should not deport someone for simply being in the USA illegally...and under Barack Obama we have had folks arrested for simply being in the country "illegally" NOT for committing a violent crime or selling illegal narcotics. I might agree with deporting a violent illegal back to his/her home country...but then again our prisons are hungry for more and more inmates so I'm surprised the Pro Prison industry hawks would not argue to go ahead and put the violent illegals in a US prison(we do have to find a way to pay the salaries/pensions of US prison guards) Being that the USA is the strongest and smartest country in the world we should be able to find a way to get the illegals to pay back taxes. We should be able to find a way to make citizens out of the so called illegals living in the USA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Why not? They were committing a crime entering the country illegally. Many have a previous deportation meaning they committed a felony by reentry (this is somewhere between 20 and 40%).

    The majority will have at least one criminal offense on record, even if just a serious misdemeanor.

    Then there's the education situation. Most illegals can barely read and write. They have difficulty with basic math. Why do we need a population of persons that are illiterate and semi-literate?

    Basically, there's every argument to deport them and few reasons to want to integrate them into society.

    That cant be the case that most illegals cant read and write, look at the numbers,

    http://latinostories.com/Latin_Ameri...eracy_Rate.htm

    Perhaps a good # of illegals can not read or write english...but they will make it just fine in one of those spanish majority speaking enclaves in the USA...no different then how we used to have majority italian speaking or majority polish speaking neighborhoods in the USA.

    Its simply a propaganda viewpoint that in general the illegals are violent idiots.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

    Likewise, If I said that general speaking illegals are angels...it would be propaganda.


    We could possibly deport the violent illegals. But I take issue with deporting someone who is simply in the USA to find a better job..again the solution there is to order the so called illegal to pay back taxes. And saying so called illegal is not idiotic....just trying to be humane here...nothing wrong with using the term so called illegal. Saying so called illegal has zero to do with Progressive, Conservative or liberal values.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    It seems the law worked as intended. I don't have a problem with this.
    If you don't like the law, work to get it changed instead of ignoring it for political purposes.
    Your solution may make you feel generous, but you are ultimately being generous with other people's money.
    Both black and white American citizens have under the table paying jobs. My solution works out...just have the illegals pay back taxes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
    IMO the ILLEGALS should be brought back to their country of origin to obtain visas that would allow them entrance to the United States to begin their process of naturalization. THEN they can become citizens of OUR great country.
    I dont like that idea...it puts to much stress on the so called "illegals ". Instead just go ahead and run a criminal background check on the illegals already in the USA...and if they are cleared provide citizenship. What concerns me is that many if not all of these so called illegals in Buffalo are good honest Christians...so therefore I must help out my fellow Christian.

    Also, why would we want to deport folks whom are working hard...60-80 hours a week..putting money back into our economy when they go to the store to buy beer or snacks? All we need to do is have these so called illegals pay some back taxes. The greatest issue here btw are not the illegals, but rather the American citizen who willingly payed those illegals under the table. BUT AGAIN we must keep in mind that the owner at least payed his workers a reasonable salary as opposed to a slave wage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    The key to this issue is the term "illegal". It means what it says.

    No one here is to blame except the illegals themselves and the manager who preyed on them

    You might want to check out how Mexico treats illegals who enter their country. They treat them as criminals right from the start.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    IMO the illegals should not be deported or charged with any sort of crime. At this point a process should be undertaken to make the illegals into legal citizens. A criminal background check should be performed and if the illegal is crime free...then let him/her into the USA so they can get a job where they pay their taxes. Of course folks let us realize that under the table paying jobs are worked by white American citizens...not just illegals from Mexico.
    Why not? They were committing a crime entering the country illegally. Many have a previous deportation meaning they committed a felony by reentry (this is somewhere between 20 and 40%).

    The majority will have at least one criminal offense on record, even if just a serious misdemeanor.

    Then there's the education situation. Most illegals can barely read and write. They have difficulty with basic math. Why do we need a population of persons that are illiterate and semi-literate?

    Basically, there's every argument to deport them and few reasons to want to integrate them into society.

    Leave a comment:


  • III Corps
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    ...IMO the illegals should not be deported or charged with any sort of crime. At this point a process should be undertaken to make the illegals into legal citizens. A criminal background check should be performed...
    You're preaching to the choir. What to do with illegal immigrants will soon be up to The Donald.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Meh. Nothing new. Two previous similar cases from Arizona.

    First was Filiberto's. A Mexican fast food chain here and in Southern California. ICE raided them in both states. Over 200 workers were arrested (the average restaurant had 3 employees for a 24 / 7 operating schedule). They found a dozen stash / safe houses that kept dozens of workers each.
    The owners were arrested. Then the government lined up and made them the engine on a train. They got hit for immigration violations, hiring violations, not paying employee taxes, social security, minimum wage, etc. The fines and penalties ran into the millions.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...an-restaurants

    Next was Chuy's. Same thing, different day. That chain only had like 50 or 60 illegals working at it.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/blogs...fiddle-6498854

    Oh, from the above "...so called illegals?" Either they were illegally here or not. "So-called" is just Progressive talk for "I'm an idiot who thinks people illegally in the US really aren't here illegally..."

    As for what to do with them. Arrest, convict, deport.

    The profile for the average illegal is:

    Male
    17 - 35
    Has 1 to 7 prior convictions for criminal activity.
    Has less than an 8th grade education and probably less than a 6th grade education.
    Has health issues.
    Is likely from Mexico or Central America (2 out of 3).
    Is twice as likely as a legal immigrant to go to prison for a felony
    Is 75% more likely to have committed a violent crime than a citizen or legal immigrant to get there.

    That is a population that the US has no need for.
    Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 14 Nov 16, 11:24.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    What do folks think about this issue?

    BUFFALO — Immigration enforcement agents were supposed to be targeting the restaurant owner. But Antonio Ramos Salazar, a cook, was the one with guns pointed at his head.

    One morning last month the officers burst through the back door at La Divina, a no-frills Mexican market and taco counter in suburban Buffalo, capping a two-year investigation into the labor practices of the restaurant’s owner, Sergio Mucino. According to the authorities, Mr. Mucino, 42, a legal permanent resident from Mexico City, along with two associates, had been harboring undocumented workers in homes around Buffalo, transporting them to jobs at his restaurants and paying them off the books.




    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/ny...falo.html?_r=0

    About 25 so called illegals working at restaurants here in the USA were arrested and faced deportation. The owner of the restaurants, Sergio Mucino, was also arrested. IMO its Sergio Mucino whom is the problem...not so much the so called illegals who were just trying to make a living here in the US. Btw the illegals were at least getting payed a decent wage...they were working their butts off(60-80 hrs a week) but making about 40k a year tax free with no overtime pay. So at least in this case the owner was at least paying what would amount to a little over min wage as opposed to say slave wages. This should be considered by the Judge when deciding how to punish Mr Mucino.

    IMO the illegals should not be deported or charged with any sort of crime. At this point a process should be undertaken to make the illegals into legal citizens. A criminal background check should be performed and if the illegal is crime free...then let him/her into the USA so they can get a job where they pay their taxes. Of course folks let us realize that under the table paying jobs are worked by white American citizens...not just illegals from Mexico.


    It seems the law worked as intended. I don't have a problem with this.
    If you don't like the law, work to get it changed instead of ignoring it for political purposes.
    Your solution may make you feel generous, but you are ultimately being generous with other people's money.

    Leave a comment:

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