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Can Trump dump the Republicans?

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    So you end up having to choose between Trump and Clinton amid all that poisonous bile and bigotry from both sides - wow what a super dooper marvelous system
    Better than bowing to a queen. You guys pissed away an Empire under your current system.

    We like a lively political season. It is as much entertainment as anything.

    Just like you appear to prefer to live in areas of the world where extradition to the UK is complicated. Just because there are clear and easy assumptions to be made by a casual onlooker does not mean they are correct. Never fully trust surface impressions.
    Last edited by Arnold J Rimmer; 12 Oct 16, 16:06.

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  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Nope.

    It is still better than any other system currently in use. .
    So you end up having to choose between Trump and Clinton amid all that poisonous bile and bigotry from both sides - wow what a super dooper marvelous system

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Nope.

    It is still better than any other system currently in use. Hell, you guys still think a monarchy is a good idea...
    That's one opinion and it being yours that counts for so much more

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  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Nope.

    It is still better than any other system currently in use. Hell, you guys still think a monarchy is a good idea...
    Yes, an oligarchy truly is the superior system.

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  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Yet they keep getting re-elected. Which supports Disraeli's point on falsehoods.

    A majority of voters like their Rep or Senator. But they dislike everyone else's.

    This goes back to our earlier discussion: public opinion means squat. Otherwise no member of Congress would ever make POTUS.

    No one votes for 'Congress'. They vote for specific individuals.
    The ignored element there is that public opinion is not a direct correlation to voters, which are the deciding factor for holding public office. 90% of Americans could hate congress and avoid elections altogether, but the remaining 10% would still select the representatives for the whole.

    Since elections are decided by a minority of eligible citizens, public opinion has a reduced impact if wrongly calculated. It's similar to how polling data can be skewed by including the opinions of non-voters.

    But as we've seen with this election, the lesser of two evils is a powerful motivator and a reason why bipartisanship doesn't sell. Hyperbole and fear is a much more appealing message than objective data and balanced debate.

    And the much higher support for individual representatives than the body entire is a well documented phenomenon, and pretty understandable. People don't like to think they're at fault. It's much easier to blame "everyone else" while assuming "my guy" is still doing well.

    But one cannot ignore public sentiment entirely. After all, the TP didn't win victories while it's supporters were totally satisfied with the GOP electorate.

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    So perhaps its time to take a review of a system thats been set in aspic for more than 200 years?
    Nope.

    It is still better than any other system currently in use. Hell, you guys still think a monarchy is a good idea...

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  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Yet they keep getting re-elected. Which supports Disraeli's point on falsehoods.

    .
    So perhaps its time to take a review of a system thats been set in aspic for more than 200 years?

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    There isn't much sympathy for Congress in these United States.
    Yet they keep getting re-elected. Which supports Disraeli's point on falsehoods.

    A majority of voters like their Rep or Senator. But they dislike everyone else's.

    This goes back to our earlier discussion: public opinion means squat. Otherwise no member of Congress would ever make POTUS.

    No one votes for 'Congress'. They vote for specific individuals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    With three parties Congress would be badly weakened, leaving the POTUS much more powerful.
    Two things:
    • What was the last time in American history when Congress's power increased relative to the Executive branch?
    • Congress is more disliked than almost any institution in the United States, and the last two years has reached its lowest historical levels. Even Obama has higher marks than Congress, meaning the hate for Congress is bipartisan.


    http://www.gallup.com/poll/189848/no...-approval.aspx



    There isn't much sympathy for Congress in these United States.

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    You are not allowing for the possibility that people could leave the Democrat Plantation in even moderate numbers.
    They can, and if anyone has ever motivated them to do so, it is Hillary.

    Three parties with approximately 30% works out pretty well.
    That would be a train wreck.

    With three parties Congress would be badly weakened, leaving the POTUS much more powerful.

    You are throwing away checks and balances for no gain.

    Meanwhile, with campaign money even tighter, politicians will have to make even more compromising promises to secure office, meaning that the corruption you decry so often would double.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    For the simple minded maybe - you could support neither
    That translates into the support for the winner. This is why there are so many efforts to convince voters that one candidate has a winning majority: to get them to not bother voting.

    There literally is only two choices. You can vote for, or vote against, but that is it.

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  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    As opposed to Hillary, who leaks classified data, has an unusually large number of enemies die, and who has become a multi-millionaire while politician and appointee...oh, and whose convention was rigged, forcing the head of her party to resign.

    I understand why a time-server such as yourself is drawn to Hillary, but I'm surprised you support the elimination of the VA and a reduction to COLA benefits for military veterans and guys who served in the USN. Isn't self-interest is what you liberals are all about?
    So many CEC talking points in such a little space. My.

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  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    A new party that can only draw about 20-30% of the voters is a losing party.
    You are not allowing for the possibility that people could leave the Democrat Plantation in even moderate numbers.
    They can, and if anyone has ever motivated them to do so, it is Hillary.

    Three parties with approximately 30% works out pretty well.

    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    For the simple minded maybe - you could support neither
    So, just drop out and let other people decide your fate?
    How very European...

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  • MarkV
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Don't be childish: you either support Trump, or you support Hillary. There are only two choices.
    For the simple minded maybe - you could support neither

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    Don't be dumb - because someone thinks Trump is a scumbag doesn't automatically mean they favour Clinton. The world is more complicated than binary. I reckon any thinking voter in your election is going to have to hold their nose whoever they vote for
    Don't be childish: you either support Trump, or you support Hillary. There are only two choices.

    Leave a comment:

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