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Taxes, Homosexuality, and Progressivism (Fun for the whole family!)

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  • Taxes, Homosexuality, and Progressivism (Fun for the whole family!)

    I thought about sticking this in my post poll discussion but decided it was too much of a red herring. So I'll give it its own space.

    I have a philosophical toss up question in light of the recent poll. A selection of people voted that a person who legally avoids taxes can and should be subject to public scorn. The yes vote got me thinking about other issues of legislation and morality. Now progressive values dictate that one should not impose one's personal view of morality upon another individual. This was illustrated in the debates over homosexuality. Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, it is considered wrong to treat homosexuals with contempt (and I agree with the notion).

    But this now brings up the question over a matter that some progressives might be less than sympathetic over: tax avoidance (specified as avoidance to differentiate from the illegal tax evasion). Now if we are to agree that it is morally wrong to impose one's personal view of morality upon another individual (barring of course where the law imposes the morality of public safety through the banning of actions like murder), and furthermore that it is wrong to verbally denigrate another individual for engaging in actions which you, personally, find to be immoral, then - here is my philosophical question - should not a progressive individual also refrain from casting hate or abuse upon a rich individual doing something that violates said progressive's personal morality? Would a progressive be "imposing his morality" by tearing down an individual for doing something legal but distasteful to the progressive?

    Just thought I would toss that out for fun.
    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

  • #2
    Why do you feel that it is only "progressives" who have a problem with the way the US Tax Code is written to favor certain groups?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
      I thought about sticking this in my post poll discussion but decided it was too much of a red herring. So I'll give it its own space.

      I have a philosophical toss up question in light of the recent poll. A selection of people voted that a person who legally avoids taxes can and should be subject to public scorn. The yes vote got me thinking about other issues of legislation and morality. Now progressive values dictate that one should not impose one's personal view of morality upon another individual. This was illustrated in the debates over homosexuality. Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, it is considered wrong to treat homosexuals with contempt (and I agree with the notion).

      But this now brings up the question over a matter that some progressives might be less than sympathetic over: tax avoidance (specified as avoidance to differentiate from the illegal tax evasion). Now if we are to agree that it is morally wrong to impose one's personal view of morality upon another individual (barring of course where the law imposes the morality of public safety through the banning of actions like murder), and furthermore that it is wrong to verbally denigrate another individual for engaging in actions which you, personally, find to be immoral, then - here is my philosophical question - should not a progressive individual also refrain from casting hate or abuse upon a rich individual doing something that violates said progressive's personal morality? Would a progressive be "imposing his morality" by tearing down an individual for doing something legal but distasteful to the progressive?

      Just thought I would toss that out for fun.
      It's a total no-brainer: unless all are subject to the same standards, nothing will ever come of any attempt to do so.

      American law is among the most inequitable in the modern world.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
        Why do you feel that it is only "progressives" who have a problem with the way the US Tax Code is written to favor certain groups?
        I don't. But among those that ridicule rich people who take tax breaks while opposing other forms of moral judgmentalism this philosophical question applies.
        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
          I don't. But among those that ridicule rich people who take tax breaks while opposing other forms of moral judgmentalism this philosophical question applies.
          Trump is a lot of things..... but sometimes his direct to the point answers are spot on. Like he said.. if you do not like the way the tax laws are structured..........change them.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johns624 View Post
            Why do you feel that it is only "progressives" who have a problem with the way the US Tax Code is written to favor certain groups?
            The problem is, that Progressives think there isn't enough tax code. That's versus the Conservative and Center's view there's too much tax code...

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            • #7
              The same argument can be offered about pedophiles. Should we push our moral judgement on a pedophile?
              John

              Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                I thought about sticking this in my post poll discussion but decided it was too much of a red herring. So I'll give it its own space.

                I have a philosophical toss up question in light of the recent poll. A selection of people voted that a person who legally avoids taxes can and should be subject to public scorn. The yes vote got me thinking about other issues of legislation and morality. Now progressive values dictate that one should not impose one's personal view of morality upon another individual. This was illustrated in the debates over homosexuality. Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, it is considered wrong to treat homosexuals with contempt (and I agree with the notion).

                But this now brings up the question over a matter that some progressives might be less than sympathetic over: tax avoidance (specified as avoidance to differentiate from the illegal tax evasion). Now if we are to agree that it is morally wrong to impose one's personal view of morality upon another individual (barring of course where the law imposes the morality of public safety through the banning of actions like murder), and furthermore that it is wrong to verbally denigrate another individual for engaging in actions which you, personally, find to be immoral, then - here is my philosophical question - should not a progressive individual also refrain from casting hate or abuse upon a rich individual doing something that violates said progressive's personal morality? Would a progressive be "imposing his morality" by tearing down an individual for doing something legal but distasteful to the progressive?

                Just thought I would toss that out for fun.
                You clearly miss the point that so many people make, myself included. Is it fair that people that make their money passively are taxed at lower rate than people that make their money actively? I completely agree that the tax codes have to be simplified, but you must remember that their is an entire industry out there that depends on the intricacy of the tax codes. Companies that run tax preparation services such as H&R Block as well as software companies such as Turbo Tax are quite likely to oppose simplification of the tax codes. I will also posit that people like Trump are more than likely quite happy with the codes as they are currently because if the codes were simplified they may actually find themselves having to pay taxes. To me it is not surprising that Apple is hot water with the EU for failing to pay Irish taxes. I am fairly certain that what most members of the 1% of the 1% really want is to avoid paying taxes altogether thus leaving the middle class to foot the bill for almost everything.
                Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  The problem is, that Progressives think there isn't enough tax code. That's versus the Conservative and Center's view there's too much tax code...
                  Makes me think someone has never actually encountered a Progressive or Progressive opinions.

                  Surely the oversimplification you intended is that Progressives favor higher taxes and Conservatives less?

                  But in my experience the truth is that the tax code gets complex by special interests going to Washington to insert their own favorable provisions. The special interests being mostly those people with money.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JBark View Post
                    The same argument can be offered about pedophiles. Should we push our moral judgement on a pedophile?
                    The issue is not whether you pass judgement on what a paedophile thinks, has fantasies about or their attraction but whether you judge and jail them for abusing children. Personally I think a paedophile cannot help their sexual desires and I could not care less about that, however they can damn well control whether they abuse someone and should be jailed for a long time if they hurt children.

                    It really is not rocket science is it?
                    "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                    G.B Shaw

                    "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                    Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                      You clearly miss the point that so many people make, myself included. Is it fair that people that make their money passively are taxed at lower rate than people that make their money actively? I completely agree that the tax codes have to be simplified, but you must remember that their is an entire industry out there that depends on the intricacy of the tax codes. Companies that run tax preparation services such as H&R Block as well as software companies such as Turbo Tax are quite likely to oppose simplification of the tax codes. I will also posit that people like Trump are more than likely quite happy with the codes as they are currently because if the codes were simplified they may actually find themselves having to pay taxes. To me it is not surprising that Apple is hot water with the EU for failing to pay Irish taxes. I am fairly certain that what most members of the 1% of the 1% really want is to avoid paying taxes altogether thus leaving the middle class to foot the bill for almost everything.
                      I understand the point you are making. But there is a difference in questions between "is it fair" and "should you go after the person who legally accesses it". I believe these to be different topics.
                      A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mconrad View Post
                        Makes me think someone has never actually encountered a Progressive or Progressive opinions.

                        Surely the oversimplification you intended is that Progressives favor higher taxes and Conservatives less?

                        But in my experience the truth is that the tax code gets complex by special interests going to Washington to insert their own favorable provisions. The special interests being mostly those people with money.
                        Nope. A central tenant of Progressive thought is "fairness." This is usually called "Social and Economic Justice" and is to be achieved through use of government force to make society altruistic.

                        Moneyed special interests manipulate Progressives far more than Conservatives to enact tax code favorable to them.

                        Progressives favor higher taxes in general to pay for their necessary social-welfare state filled with government largesse, and to "punish" those who are rich, taking more than their fair share (as determined by Progressive standards), an the like.

                        The tax code gets complex mainly because as politics moves Left, it is increasingly used not just to fund government but to act as a moral and social tool of education. That is the Left (in particular) uses the tax code to favor or punish behavior.
                        For example... Green energy. Doesn't matter a whit to the Progressive Left that Solar and wind are near total expensive fails as mass energy generation sources. They want those. They don't want "fossil" fuels, particularly coal, so they punish the coal industry while subsidizing their own loser pipe dream with tax breaks.
                        There is no economic sense to what they want or are doing, simply they want a politically based outcome they want to see. Look at Germany where this has been rampant. Electricity has become a luxury item rather than an affordable staple good like it should be. That's all because of government favoring one form of energy over another and handing out large incentives to the favored forms while punishing the unflavored ones.

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