Who won the debate?

[ljadw]

Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and share a lot of common beliefs with the social-conservative element of the GOP (abortion, gay marriage, etc.).

People as La Raza who say : the White Man must leave America, and Latinos who demonstrate with the Mexican flag .

[ljadw]

America is not about a race or a language, it's about ideals that go beyond someone's skin color or the language they speak.

And Ferguson?

[Daemon of Decay]

People as La Raza who say : the White Man must leave America, and Latinos who demonstrate with the Mexican flag .

And the KKK says blacks and Jews should be expelled while demonstrating with the confederate flag. Generally, it's more accurate to not to assume an angry minority is the alpha and omega of an entire race.

[R. Evans]

And Ferguson?

Try comprehending English. He said "ideals". Ideals aren't always achieved.

[Combat Engineer]

RCP 4 way average at 4% towards Clinton. Two way race at 3.8%. Status quo and or a move to Clinton, no matter how small, will NOT help Trump. He needs to start moving the dials very soon.

[Escape2Victory]

The social conservatism element comes back into play when considering those demographics, however. If the GOP were to make concessions and reevaluate their image amongst Hispanics, they'd have a treasure-trove of voters: Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and share a lot of common beliefs with the social-conservative element of the GOP (abortion, gay marriage, etc.).

That's an interesting point but hard to square with the immigration debate and that aspect of social conservatism.

If Trump loses, it may be the GOP has to concede it will never get a mandate for Hispanic immigration control and throw in its lot with Hispanics as you suggest. That could have profound implications for American culture in the years ahead and a constant dilution of its European cultural heritage. Quite what that means is hard to say but it is why I think this election is unusually important for America's future direction.

[Escape2Victory]

Secession is illegal. Period. Even if 100% of the population of say Arizona voted to rejoin Mexico it would still be illegal. Furthermore, there is a certain island that is 98% Hispanic that has over 95% of it's population supporting pro-union political parties. America is not about a race or a language, it's about ideals that go beyond someone's skin color or the language they speak.


IMO after this election, they are not going to have much of a choice except to change their positions. Sure, the hardliners will dig their heels in but eventually even they will throw in the towel.

This glosses over the fact States have tried to leave in the past and for reasons that were at least partly bound with race. America's past contains a strong racial narrative that includes ethnic cleansing. It is bordering on ridiculous to erase this and discount it from thoughts about the future.

[T. A. Gardner]

That's an interesting point but hard to square with the immigration debate and that aspect of social conservatism.

If Trump loses, it may be the GOP has to concede it will never get a mandate for Hispanic immigration control and throw in its lot with Hispanics as you suggest. That could have profound implications for American culture in the years ahead and a constant dilution of its European cultural heritage. Quite what that means is hard to say but it is why I think this election is unusually important for America's future direction.

That would be sad given how badly hosed up Central and South America are from Spanish cultural heritage...

[Michele]

I've waited a few days, so that a number of polls would be in after the date of the debate.

RealClear Politics gave, the day before the debate, a +2.3% average over the recent polls in favor of Clinton.

The average today is +3.8% in favor of Clinton, and that average covers the period from today back to 9/22 - i.e., it still includes some polls from before the debate.

And the polls that were taken only after the debate or from the day of the debate and on, show (most recent first):

Clinton +6%
Clinton +6%
Clinton +5%
Trump +4%
Clinton +6%
Clinton +5%
Clinton +4%
Tie.

So it seems that after the debate ("after" not necessarily meaning "because of") Clinton is faring better and better.

Let's wait to compare that +2.3% average from the day before the debate, with an average of polls taken exclusively after the debate. It will take a few days more.

Unless there are polls that go against the current trend, the slight improvement of +3.8% (a +1.5% since the day before the debate) shown today will probably have inched higher.

[ljadw]

Try comprehending English. He said "ideals". Ideals aren't always achieved.

Founding society on ideals results always in disasters . Reality always win .Ideals are good for daydreamers, for people living in a tower of ivory .

[ljadw]

And the KKK says blacks and Jews should be expelled while demonstrating with the confederate flag. Generally, it's more accurate to not to assume an angry minority is the alpha and omega of an entire race.

Is it a minority ?

The KKK is limited to a few stupid ones who are rejected by the whites, while I haven't seen that the majority of the Latinos are rejected La Raza : the refusal of a lot of Latinos to adopt the customs and language of their new fatherland lets suppose the opposite .

[E.D. Morel]

And the KKK says blacks and Jews should be expelled

And the Catholics, don't forget about them! They are worse than the Jews.

I wouldn't like to be a Black Jew who opens a Potpourri shop in the KKK South

[ljadw]

Prove the existence of a KKK South .

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Prove the existence of a KKK South .

I have seen no sign of one. Incidentally the HQ of the KK is in Illinois, and has been since 1922.

[Daemon of Decay]

Is it a minority ?

The KKK is limited to a few stupid ones who are rejected by the whites, while I haven't seen that the majority of the Latinos are rejected La Raza : the refusal of a lot of Latinos to adopt the customs and language of their new fatherland lets suppose the opposite .

And your support for this is...?