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Who won the debate?

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  • Originally posted by Michele View Post
    Given that this seems a close race, the most interesting thing, and the real (IMHO) standard to judge "who won", would be seeing what effect the debate had on the undecided. Is it true, to any extent, that many of them will decide, or have already decided, on the basis of this meager input?
    Some evidence suggests Clinton had some gains with undecided, but that's still questionable at best.

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    • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
      Lying about something irrelevant is still irrelevant...
      It's irrelevant when it comes to judge the reliability of the liar? His personality?

      I think we'll disagree on this. Some might say that he who lies in what is irrelevant, won't be sincere in what is relevant...
      Michele

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      • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
        Not according to multiple major sources, including the maker of your graph. Nate also made another graph about the CNN poll and its historic correlation to post-debate polls, for example.



        To quote from the source above:
        The data is certainly noisy, but an emphatic win on the order of what Clinton or Romney achieved — and perhaps what Hillary Clinton achieved on Monday night — might be expected to produce a swing of 2 to 4 percentage points in horse-race polls. Even a 2-point gain would do wonders for Clinton, who would go from a fairly uncomfortable position in the Electoral College to a fairly comfortable one, and who would emerge with a 3-to-4-point lead in the popular vote.

        So no, Trump just having a heartbeat was not enough to be a "victory". Although I guess you could quote Stephen Colbert on how all Trump has to do was not murder a child (on stage) as similar sentiment.

        Noisy?

        The coefficient of determination looks like about 0.01.

        R² = 0.01 ≠ correlation

        Nate & company must be getting a bit desperate... Trying to forecast polls from polls.

        The two "snap" polls don't even agree with each other. The PPP poll gave Her Hagness +11 (51-40). This would translate to about a 0.5% bump in the polls.
        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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        • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
          Simple question: which candidate "won" tonight's debate. Not which candidate you like the most, or which one you think wins by default, but just which candidate was the evening's victor.
          Trump was unprepared, condescending, bombastic and mendacious; what a surprise. With that being said the debate is unlikely to sway hardcore Trump supporters and I do not think that Hillary has won over the Millennials just yet. The polls are still quite tight and a Trump presidency is a possibility. A note of caution for you hardcore Republicans/conservatives that maintain the notion that if Trump get elected he could be controlled, they were thinking the same thing in Germany when Hitler was elected.
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          • Originally posted by Michele View Post
            It's irrelevant when it comes to judge the reliability of the liar? His personality?

            I think we'll disagree on this. Some might say that he who lies in what is irrelevant, won't be sincere in what is relevant...
            Since they both lie, lying, by itself, isn't a discriminator.
            Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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            • Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
              Lying about something irrelevant is still irrelevant... Material lies or lying under oath would be relevant.

              No, being a serial liar is a bad thing. Being under oath is not part of the equation, being a serial liar is a bad thing. One more time, being a serial liar is a bad think.
              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
              “To talk of many things:
              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
              Of cabbages—and kings—
              And why the sea is boiling hot—
              And whether pigs have wings.”
              ― Lewis Carroll

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              • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                Some evidence suggests Clinton had some gains with undecided, but that's still questionable at best.
                The polls will yield an answer over the next few days... And the answer will likely be inconclusive.
                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                  No, being a serial liar is a bad thing. Being under oath is not part of the equation, being a serial liar is a bad thing. One more time, being a serial liar is a bad think.
                  She's a serial, congenital liar... So, a propensity for stretching the truth, isn't a discriminator between the two candidates.
                  Last edited by The Doctor; 27 Sep 16, 11:45.
                  Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                  • Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                    Be careful Doc, you're going to hurt your back if you keep bending over backwards to make excuses like that.
                    Immaterial or collateral lies are in an entirely different league than material lies and perjury.
                    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                    • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                      That would be rather silly - it's hardly Clinton's fault the other Clinton is an adulterating bastard
                      Well... If Hillary was your wife wouldn't YOU cheat? I suspect Hillary has all the love making ability of a cracked rock.

                      T.

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                      • 10 pages, eh?

                        Well, there's no doubt in my mind that Clinton won the debate last night.

                        Trump clearly came unprepared, he simply cannot put together a coherent and concise answer that lays out his vision and solutions to various problems raised in the debate.

                        Furthermore, Trump offended many people by saying he's smart for not paying a cent in federal income taxes. He also refused to release his income tax returns by claiming he's still undergoing an audit, though IRS has stated that he could release his income tax returns at anytime.

                        Trump did land a few blows in the first 20 minutes of opening, hitting Clinton on economy and emails, but after that, he was wildly inconsistent and stumbled at answering challenge questions. It's true that Lester Holt tossed up tougher questions for Trump while softballing questions to Clinton, but it's no excuse for Trump to come up with answers in his defense and play hard ball with Clinton as well.

                        In all, I think Trump is better off not engaging Clinton in another debate. We learned absolutely nothing from last night except that Trump doesn't really have temperament to be next President.
                        Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                        "Aim small, miss small."

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                        • I am surprised to see ACG folks vote overwhelmingly in favor of Clinton wrt who won the debate. Just a few months back when it was asked here on ACG who would you pick for POTUS...the winner was Trump.
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                          • Originally posted by Tuebor View Post
                            I didn't vote, because the "real" choice was win, lose, or draw. Not Win or lose.

                            T.
                            Ya, a real tough choice. YES or NO. WIN or LOSE and you couldn't decide. WHY? It certainly isn't beyond your intellect or...
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                            • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                              I am surprised to see ACG folks vote overwhelmingly in favor of Clinton wrt who won the debate. Just a few months back when it was asked here on ACG who would you pick for POTUS...the winner was Trump.
                              Do you know the difference between apples and oranges?
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                              • Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                                10 pages, eh?

                                Well, there's no doubt in my mind that Clinton won the debate last night.

                                Trump clearly came unprepared, he simply cannot put together a coherent and concise answer that lays out his vision and solutions to various problems raised in the debate.

                                Furthermore, Trump offended many people by saying he's smart for not paying a cent in federal income taxes. He also refused to release his income tax returns by claiming he's still undergoing an audit, though IRS has stated that he could release his income tax returns at anytime.

                                Trump did land a few blows in the first 20 minutes of opening, hitting Clinton on economy and emails, but after that, he was wildly inconsistent and stumbled at answering challenge questions. It's true that Lester Holt tossed up tougher questions for Trump while softballing questions to Clinton, but it's no excuse for Trump to come up with answers in his defense and play hard ball with Clinton as well.

                                In all, I think Trump is better off not engaging Clinton in another debate. We learned absolutely nothing from last night except that Trump doesn't really have temperament to be next President.
                                All we learned from that debate, and from every other Presidential debate for the last 40 or 50 years, is which candidate is best at memorizing their prepackaged answers, and who looks best on TV. If you think that watching those debates is going to tell you how someone is going to respond when the you know what hits the oscillation device, you're mistaken.

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