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  • Oh dear! That's all my fault? How am I ever going to sleep tonight?

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    • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
      Do you think it possible to be anti-Islam (Dogma and Scriptures) without being anti-Muslim?
      Absolutely. For example, I'll never be a Muslim: like my beer, my wine, my spirits, my pork, and my shellfish, and all way too much. Sorry, but there ain't no Islam in my future.

      I practice Orthodox Christianity -- at least those aspects with which I agree. I do not declare my wife "unclean" every month, even though Orthodox doctrine does call for that. Call me a cherry-picker, but since God gave me a brain to discern the useful from the useless, I think it my sacred obligation to use it, and to discern at will.

      Being anti-Muslim, however, means being anti the people who practice Islam -- for no other reason than they practice Islam. I'm anti terrorism, in that I'm always against the injection of crass violence into an otherwise civil political process, but in that I can easily find a good many Muslims who share my sentiments.

      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
      I ask because it seems many confuse this distinction and think once someone is opposed to Islam the Theology, Dogma and Scripture, they are opposed to ALL Muslims.
      Some fellows here seem to be saying that if you've had your foreskin schnipped, then you should be deported. Perhaps that's an observation that you should address to those fellows.

      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
      Many Muslims here in the West tend to be MINOs (Muslim In Name Only)
      I never did much care for that expression, much like I don't care for "Uncle Tom." Such expressions presume to look into a man's heart, to know what he should and should not be thinking, be he a Muslim, a Republican, an African-American, etc. I can think of no greater arrogance.

      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
      but still they and others retain enough of their religion and culture to be in conflict with the foundations of our secular nation. Consider this excerpt and the linked article;
      ...
      Instead, Mr. Khan insisted: "One of the lessons from around the world is that a laissez-faire or hands-off approach to social integration doesn't work. We need rules, institutions, and support to enable people to integrate into cohesive communities and for the avoidance of doubt, I don't mean assimilation, I mean integration, and there's a difference."

      He added: "People shouldn't have to drop their cultures and traditions when they arrive in our cities and countries."

      The United Kingdom, and especially areas of East London which overwhelmingly voted for Mr. Khan, is currently suffering from Muslim ghettoisation, horrific employment rates for Muslim women, an internal debate surrounding the banning of the burka, and ongoing issues such as female genital mutilation, anti-Semitism, and homophobia within Muslim communities.

      Under Mr. Khan's plans, none of these "cultures and traditions" would need to be dropped for Muslim migrants to Western countries.
      Perhaps Mr Khan is one of those politically active types who wants have his cake and eat it too. Surely you've noticed that that foible is not at all unique to Muslims. Personally, and as I've stated here countless times, I'd chalk that crap up to post-Marxian education, the kind that dominates our higher institutions. Thanks to Sayyid Qutb, a sickening brew of socialism and social activist Islam now holds sway with far too many people. Take away the socialism and social justice claptrap, however, and all you're left with is a quaint religion that Western lefties will ignore 'til the cows come home.


      That still does not account for the millions of Muslims worldwide who have no time for that nonsense. They work, they go to school, they send their kids to school -- they do all the normal stuff that you and I do, and except for the fact that they pray on Fridays instead of Sundays, you'd never know that they were Muslims.
      Last edited by slick_miester; 21 Sep 16, 12:44.
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

      Comment


      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
        You're responsible, 'cause you're a bog standard hypocrite. You denounce Muslims for using random violence as a means of effecting political expression, yet you ignore the Irish, the Spanish, the Greeks, the Greens, the Leftists, the Rightists, et al, who've done the same thing. You're a hypocrite because you absolutely refuse to address the value that immigrants can provide to an economy and a society. And you're a bog standard hypocrite because you carefully skirt around the fact that you're a bog standard bigot.
        Never in Europe's history have we accepted mass migration from the Muslim world. It was and is one gigantic experiment that Islam has evolved beyond the medieval period.

        Your tedious and incessant peddling of the IRA ignores the fact Ireland is on our doorstep and unavoidably intertwined with our culture. Mass migration from the Muslim world, under the multicultural banner, has been layered on top of the myriad other issues Europe had to contend with and was never put to a democratic vote.

        I am guessing you too have no apology to make or solution to offer. So gaze on the emergence of a nasty far right movement in the West and remember you helped give birth to it.
        Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
          Never in Europe's history have we accepted mass migration from the Muslim world. It was and is one gigantic experiment that Islam has evolved beyond the medieval period.

          Your tedious and incessant peddling of the IRA ignores the fact Ireland is on our doorstep and unavoidably intertwined with our culture. Mass migration from the Muslim world, under the multicultural banner, has been layered on top of the myriad other issues Europe had to contend with and was never put to a democratic vote.

          I am guessing you too have no apology to make or solution to offer. So gaze on the emergence of a nasty far right movement in the West and remember you helped give birth to it.
          Since the Micks made common cause with Libya and Palestine -- not to mention the KGB -- might you come to see them in a different light?

          Of course not: they're too pale and pasty.
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
            Never in Europe's history have we accepted mass migration from the Muslim world. It was and is one gigantic experiment that Islam has evolved beyond the medieval period.
            Never say "never". Doing a quick google search, it seems that you Brits had hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis come over after Indian independence. That's many more than they have over in Calais right now.

            Comment


            • I wonder what Anti Muslims would say about banning all white Europeans from the USA. No Europeans allowed into the US due to actions of Europeans like Anders Brevik.

              Anti muslims will also use rude and childish language, and will never pay any sort of attention to vital facts such as the Muslims who fight ISIL. There is alawys an excuse for the Anti Muslim...its the same with the Anti Catholic...the Anti Catholic mega concentrates on criminal Priests...never talking about the honorable present day and past Priests like the Irishmen Father John Murphy who stood and fought for what was right. The anti Muslims itt will not talk about Muslims who fight ISIL either because they dont know or know, and simply do not care.
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                Not at all. Terrorists are terrorists. It's just your comparison that fails. It has nothing to do with the political ideology of islam. And you do realize that muslims come in every color, don't you?



                Are the Irish at war with everyone who isn't them? Does Irish terrorism plague the world?

                It's 2016, not the troubles. Same goes with your bringing the Chinese into this discussion of current events. You're way off topic.
                We dont have to back 500 years....Go back to the 1940s...the Christian friendly Third Reich was taking over country after country. Today we see how The Muslim friendly ISIL has only taken parts of Iraq and Syria.

                It is impossible, again impossible that all Muslims are out to get us. Therefore it makes zero sense to say things like Islam needs to change.

                Imagine you telling the Muslims who team up with Christians about your negative viewpoints about Islam? That would be the same as you saying during WW2 Christianity needs to change...it would come off as utterly annoying...sort of like how some BLM are very annoying when it comes to talking about whites.

                The anti Muslims, like BLM...think they are special, chosen people who can dictate to others how to live life.
                Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                George S Patton

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                  I wonder what Anti Muslims would say about banning all white Europeans from the USA. No Europeans allowed into the US due to actions of Europeans like Anders Brevik.

                  Anti muslims will also use rude and childish language, and will never pay any sort of attention to vital facts such as the Muslims who fight ISIL. There is alawys an excuse for the Anti Muslim...its the same with the Anti Catholic...the Anti Catholic mega concentrates on criminal Priests...never talking about the honorable present day and past Priests like the Irishmen Father John Murphy who stood and fought for what was right. The anti Muslims itt will not talk about Muslims who fight ISIL either because they dont know or know, and simply do not care.
                  When did Muslims become a race? (re: your reference to "white Europeans")

                  Technically, being Muslim is a matter of choice, such as with any other religion, ideology, or philosophy. Except many have been "born into it" and grew up accepting such; then there are the provisions of Sharia and the Hadith to which many fundamentalist Muslims believe that death should be the penalty for renouncing Islam and deciding not to be a Muslim. Note that in some countries, like Pakistan, this is now secular Law, if not local cultural custom.

                  I'm not aware of any other religions with such a scriptural dogma penalty apply to apostates in this current and modern era (yes, it might have applied a couple of centuries ago, though wasn't Scriptural).

                  Islam shares many similarities with National Socialism and Hitler was a bigger fan of Islam than Thomas Jefferson ever was, yet you never mention that.

                  Consider that National Socialism (Nazi ideology) had metaphysical/spiritual/theological roots in its Thule and Vril origins and claims to be in service of prepping the world for "superior beings" (deities?) and coming close to a definition for "religion" = philosophy/ideology with Deity(s) attached. Interesting how so many here will quickly condemn the "religion" of Nazism yet will embrace a near similar "religion" of Islam which shares many of the same exclusive, elitist, racist, and violent agendas and goal of global conquest as seen in the NSDAP. BTW, many Muslims fought for and alongside the Nazis during WWII (to counter-point your claims of those whom fought with/for the Allies).

                  When Islam withdraws the provisions of Sharia and the Hadith making women second class property without equal rights to men, making non-Muslims sub-human, and allowing tolerance and equality for others whom aren't Muslims, then I'll consider it as possibly qualifying as a religion rather than a psychopathic cultural aberration and plague.

                  My objection has nothing to do with strange rituals, dressing or eating customs and everything to do with aggressive and violent proselytizing, infringement of individual human rights and freedoms, and a philosophy where spiritual rewards of the afterlife increase with the more death and destruction done in the name of Allah.
                  TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                  “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                    When did Muslims become a race? (re: your reference to "white Europeans")

                    Islam shares many similarities with National Socialism and Hitler was a bigger fan of Islam than Thomas Jefferson ever was, yet you never mention that.

                    Consider that National Socialism (Nazi ideology) had metaphysical/spiritual/theological roots in its Thule and Vril origins and claims to be in service of prepping the world for "superior beings" (deities?) and coming close to a definition for "religion" = philosophy/ideology with Deity(s) attached. Interesting how so many here will quickly condemn the "religion" of Nazism yet will embrace a near similar "religion" of Islam which shares many of the same exclusive, elitist, racist, and violent agendas and goal of global conquest as seen in the NSDAP. BTW, many Muslims fought for and alongside the Nazis during WWII (to counter-point your claims of those whom fought with/for the Allies).

                    When Islam withdraws the provisions of Sharia and the Hadith making women second class property without equal rights to men, making non-Muslims sub-human, and allowing tolerance and equality for others whom aren't Muslims, then I'll consider it as possibly qualifying as a religion rather than a psychopathic cultural aberration and plague.

                    My objection has nothing to do with strange rituals, dressing or eating customs and everything to do with aggressive and violent proselytizing, infringement of individual human rights and freedoms, and a philosophy where spiritual rewards of the afterlife increase with the more death and destruction done in the name of Allah.
                    I feel almost exactly the same. But I also think that a reformed church of islam isn't a possibility due to the fact that they will off anyone who tries...
                    Credo quia absurdum.


                    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                      When did Muslims become a race? (re: your reference to "white Europeans")

                      Technically, being Muslim is a matter of choice, such as with any other religion, ideology, or philosophy. Except many have been "born into it" and grew up accepting such; then there are the provisions of Sharia and the Hadith to which many fundamentalist Muslims believe that death should be the penalty for renouncing Islam and deciding not to be a Muslim. Note that in some countries, like Pakistan, this is now secular Law, if not local cultural custom.

                      I'm not aware of any other religions with such a scriptural dogma penalty apply to apostates in this current and modern era (yes, it might have applied a couple of centuries ago, though wasn't Scriptural).

                      Islam shares many similarities with National Socialism and Hitler was a bigger fan of Islam than Thomas Jefferson ever was, yet you never mention that.

                      Consider that National Socialism (Nazi ideology) had metaphysical/spiritual/theological roots in its Thule and Vril origins and claims to be in service of prepping the world for "superior beings" (deities?) and coming close to a definition for "religion" = philosophy/ideology with Deity(s) attached. Interesting how so many here will quickly condemn the "religion" of Nazism yet will embrace a near similar "religion" of Islam which shares many of the same exclusive, elitist, racist, and violent agendas and goal of global conquest as seen in the NSDAP. BTW, many Muslims fought for and alongside the Nazis during WWII (to counter-point your claims of those whom fought with/for the Allies).

                      When Islam withdraws the provisions of Sharia and the Hadith making women second class property without equal rights to men, making non-Muslims sub-human, and allowing tolerance and equality for others whom aren't Muslims, then I'll consider it as possibly qualifying as a religion rather than a psychopathic cultural aberration and plague.

                      My objection has nothing to do with strange rituals, dressing or eating customs and everything to do with aggressive and violent proselytizing, infringement of individual human rights and freedoms, and a philosophy where spiritual rewards of the afterlife increase with the more death and destruction done in the name of Allah.
                      I dont believe Muslims are a race. And I do not believe there are races among us humans.

                      Hitler was Pro Islam and Muslims did fight on the side of the axis powers. More Muslims fought on the allied side,

                      http://www.thenational.ae/thenationa...-worth-marking



                      Hitler was a Catholic until his death and was praised as a Crusader by Catholics of the Third Reich. To this day, one can go on youtube and see how pro Reich videos are overwhelmingly liked when compared to disliked. So there are Non Muslims(and perhaps Muslims) out there today who agree with the Third Reich ideology. It goes even further, in Ukraine there has been shown to be pro Ukrainian folks who wear Helmets or other types of gear that has Third Reich symbols on it. You can see this helmet in the link below.. There are commemorations of Nazis given to this day in Ukraine.

                      http://pop-verse.com/2016/01/06/my-n...r-fathers-did/

                      You can access the documentary on Netflix.

                      Does this mean that all Ukraine people are bad people, IMO no it does not. So the same respect ought to be given to Muslims that is provided to the people of Ukraine. What I am against today is ISIL, and during WW2 I would have been against the Third Reich.

                      As for the Reichs view on the Thule religion and Thor, this type of stuff was widely rejected by the NDSAP. Rosenbergs religious views were a minority of the Reich.

                      People often make the claim that Adolph Hitler adhered to Atheism, Humanism or some ancient Nordic pagan mythology. None of these fanciful and wrong ideas hold. Although one of Hitler's henchmen, Alfred Rosenberg, did undertake a campaign of Nordic mythological propaganda, Hitler and most of his henchmen did not believe in it .

                      Many American books, television documentaries, and Sunday sermons that preach of Hitler's "evil" have eliminated Hitler's god for their Christian audiences, but one only has to read from his own writings to appreciate that Hitler's God equals the same God of the Christian Bible. Hitler held many hysterical beliefs which not only include, God and Providence but also Fate, Social Darwinism, and ideological politics. He spoke, unashamedly, about God, fanaticism, idealism, dogma, and the power of propaganda. Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

                      "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."


                      http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

                      Hitler talked about how the Third Reich was a Christian movement, and because practically all Germany was Christian in the lead up to WW2...there can not be an argument put forth that the Reich was anti Christian. So the Third Reich was Pro Christian, ISIL is Pro Muslim. In fact there were far more Christians in the Third Reich when compared to the Muslims of today who are members of ISIL. The Third Reich was a far more serious threat then ISIL as the Reich took over France, which was in and of itself a remarkable feat.....England tried in its past to take France...did not work. But back to the religious aspect... because Christians in large # opposed the Third Reich, and because today Muslims in large # oppose ISIL....its not Islam or Christianity that are the problem.
                      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                      George S Patton

                      Comment


                      • More lies and ratzi apologetics.

                        Catholics are constantly confronted with the claims that Pope Pius XII was complicit in the Holocaust, that vast numbers of Catholics collaborated with Hitler’s diabolical regime, and that Catholic priests, nuns, and bishops were ardent members of the Nazi Party and supporters of its policies. It is true that many Catholics turned a blind eye to the Holocaust, and others remained silent out of fear for their lives and the safety of their families. There were certainly many ex-Catholic members of the ruling Nazi circles, just as there were Catholics in some numbers who supported the Nazis out of a twisted sense of nationalism, anti-Semitic beliefs, or for pure personal advancement in a corrupt and evil state.
                        But what many people don’t know is that the Church itself was a target of the Nazis. On June 6, 1941, Martin Bormann, head of the Nazi Party Chancellery, private secretary to Adolf Hitler, and one of the most powerful figures in the Third Reich, issued a secret decree for all Gauleiters (or regional party leaders) of the Reich regarding the true intentions of the Nazi regime toward the Christian churches.
                        More and more the people must be separated from the churches and their organs the pastors . . . Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the State, so must the possibility of church influence also be totally removed . . . Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are the people and Reich secure in their existence for all time. ("Relationship of National Socialism and Christianity")
                        The truth is many thousands of Catholic men, women, and children died in concentration camps, SS and Gestapo torture chambers, or in fields and villages across Europe for the "crime" of proclaiming the truth to one of the most evil regimes in human history. The historical reality of this oppression does not in any way reduce the culpability of some Catholics in the Holocaust, nor does it suggest that the unprecedented genocide of the Jewish people should be forgotten or considered reduced in significance.
                        Robust Catholicism
                        The Church in Germany had survived many hardships in the late 19th century, including the policy of Kulturkampf implemented by the powerful German Chancellor Otto von Bismarck that sought to reduce Catholic influence in German life. Catholics stood firm against Bismarck, and Catholic political interests were protected by the Zentrum, the German Catholic Center Party, launched in 1870. The party came to the height of its prosperity in the Weimar Republic, between 1919 and 1933, when it held the chancellorship eight times.
                        By the late 1920s, the Catholic Church in Germany claimed some 20 million members. They were outnumbered by the 40 million Lutherans, but the vitality of the Catholic community was manifested in the 20,000 priests (compared to the 16,000 Lutheran ministers), the million and a half members of the Catholic Youth Organization, an active Catholic press, Catholic labor unions, and the widely respected Catholic Center Party.
                        At first, many average Catholics, like other Germans, were not fully aware of the dangers of National Socialism. Some saw the Nazis as a potential ally against the spread of Communism. Bishop Christian Schreiber of Berlin, for example, granted permission for Catholics to join the party. Most German bishops and priests, however, were alarmed by the Nazis and their anti-Semitic speeches, radical nationalistic tone, and clear willingness to use violence and intimidation. In early 1931, the bishops’ conference of the Cologne region condemned National Socialism, followed by the bishops of the region of Paderborn and Freiburg. The Catholic press and the Catholic German Center Party were also distinctly hostile to the Nazis.
                        For their part, Hitler and the Nazis tried to present a moderate and reassuring face to Catholics. But the instinctive reaction of most Catholics to the Nazis was a negative one, and only small numbers of Catholics voted for the National Socialists in the elections prior to 1933.
                        Hitler’s Ascent
                        On January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler was officially appointed chancellor by the aged President Paul von Hindenburg. A mere month later, on February 27, the infamous Reichstag Fire (a plot concocted by the Nazis) gave Hitler the pretext to establish a dictatorship through the so-called Enabling Act that was passed in March 1933. The act bestowed sweeping powers on the government, including setting aside key elements of basic rights, for four years.
                        He then proceeded apace with the destruction of all opposition—political, social, and religious. The instruments at his disposal were the laws of the Reich (such as the Enabling Laws) and Reich security, including the regular police, the Gestapo, the SS, and the SD (the Sicherheitsdienst or Secret Service of the Nazis). The other source of terror was the existence of the concentration camps, the most feared at first being Dachau, which was opened in March 1933 outside of Munich and which soon was filled with the enemies of the regime, including thousands of Catholics.
                        Persecution Begins
                        In February 1933, Hermann Göring banned all Catholic newspapers in Cologne on the claim that Catholics were illegally engaging in politics. The ban was lifted soon after, but Catholics had been sent a message. A short time later, thugs from the Sturmabteilung (SA), the Brownshirts, stormed a gathering of the Christian trade unions and the Catholic Center Party and brutalized many of those in attendance.
                        The government next banned the other political parties. The Social Democrats (SPD) were prohibited in June. On July 5, 1933, the Catholic Centre Party, and its ally the Bavarian People’s Party, disbanded itself under relentless Nazi intimidation and after empty promises were made promising Catholic freedom in education and for youth groups. On July 14, 1933, Germany became officially a one-party state.
                        As the parties were disbanded, the Gestapo began rounding up all who might oppose the social revolution. Hundreds of priests were arrested for speaking out against the anti-democratic changes and the persecution of Jews. Thousands of members of the Catholic Center Party were in jails or concentration camps even before the party voted itself out of existence. The Christian Trade Unions were dissolved in late June, and, under mounting pressure, the bishops of Germany agreed to permit members to join the Nazi Party. Needing a permanent statement to clarify legally the Catholic Church’s status in Nazi Germany, Pius XI signed a concordat with Hitler on July 20, 1933.
                        While attacked today as a Catholic capitulation to the Nazis, the concordat was viewed in its time in terms similar to those of the Concordat of 1800 between Pope Pius VII and Napoleon Bonaparte. In facing a dictator who would surely violate all promises, Pope Pius XI sought a formal document that could be used to defend the rights of Catholics and Catholic institutions in a future that the pontiff knew was going to be dark and dangerous for all who professed faith in Christ.
                        The Nazi Party’s overarching policy was described by the term Gleichschaltung, denoting the effort to bring all German culture, religious practice, politics, and even daily life into strict conformity with Nazi ideology. It was a policy of total control of thought, belief, and practice and entailed the systematic eradication of all anti-Nazi elements in the country. The effort to control the churches was termed the Kirchenkampf (the war against the church), although Catholics were not attacked on the legal basis of their Catholicism. Rather, Catholics who opposed the Nazis were arrested and murdered for "crimes" against the state.
                        Terrors of the Night
                        One such prominent Catholic victim was the president of Catholic Action in Germany, Erich Klausener. The devout Catholic German delivered a speech in June 1934 against the regime at the Catholic Congress in Berlin. He was shot to death in his office on June 30, during the so-called Night of the Long Knives when Hitler annihilated more of his political opposition, including the leadership of the SA (that had outlived its usefulness), and many conservative politicians. Klausener’s entire staff was sent to concentration camps.
                        For average Catholic laity, clergy, and nuns in Germany, the rise of the Nazi dictatorship in 1933 and 1934 brought sweeping changes to their daily lives. While permitted to go to Mass, Catholics lived increasingly in an oppressive atmosphere of propaganda, fear of arrest at any moment, and the gnawing worry that everything being said to friends or family might be reported to the Gestapo. Friends, pastors, teachers, and relatives were taken in the night, and only vague and gruesome reports of their deaths or imprisonment followed.
                        Catholics next witnessed the attacks on the Catholic press and Catholic education. A special "Editors’ Law" was decreed in December 1933 with the intention of curbing all speech by requiring that all editors join the Literary Chamber of the Third Reich. The Chamber, part of Josef Goebbels’ Propaganda Ministry, decided what could be published. The law essentially ended the Catholic press in Germany. Catholic newspapers and publications closed their doors as they were unable to comply with government limitations on freedom and unwilling to print Nazi propaganda on such horrendous issues as enforced sterilization and euthanasia. At the start of 1933, there were over 400 daily Catholic newspapers in Germany. By 1935, there were none. Over the succeeding years, the surviving Catholic periodicals and the diocesan papers slowly ended publication. In 1941, the Nazis shut down the remaining diocesan weekly papers and Catholic journals.
                        In 1935, all youth groups were prohibited from participating in public events, from wearing uniforms, and above all, from playing in any organized sports. The one exception to the rule, of course, was the Hitler Youth, with its female counterpart, the League of German Girls, the Nazi Party’s official paramilitary organization for young people. The Hitler Youth became mandatory for all German boys and girls in 1936. At the same time as membership was made a rule of law, all other youth organizations were abolished.
                        German Catholics were next discouraged from sending their children to Catholic schools. Nazi propaganda called the schools disloyal and havens of corruption, and families were eventually required to appear before authorities to declare officially why they had decided to betray the regime. During the ordeal of the interview, parents—especially any working for the government or in the German armed forces—were reminded of the possibly dire consequences should they proceed, including loss of promotion, dismissal, and even prison. Not surprisingly, Catholic schools suffered from massive drops in enrollment. After a few years of Nazi coercion, enrollment in the Munich archdiocesan schools plummeted to below five percent. The end result was that by 1939, more than 10,000 Catholic schools had been closed and the Catholic boys and girls sent to Nazi public schools for indoctrination.
                        Still, with each new step in the Kirchenkampf, the Nazis discovered more Catholics willing to speak out against them. As some of the most powerful symbols of the Church, priests became primary targets for Nazi propaganda, legal traps, arrest, and murder.
                        Show Trials
                        One of the most effective Nazi legal maneuvers against Catholic priests (and some Protestant clergy) was the use of show trials that highlighted supposed criminal immorality. Throughout 1935 and 1936, hundreds of priests, monks, lay-brothers and women religious were arrested, accused of sexual perversions, pedophilia, and homosexuality, and then put on public trial. Typical of Gestapo techniques was to lure a priest to a hotel room or apartment on the pretense of someone needing last rites. Once there, the priest was set upon by a prostitute while Gestapo officials took photos of the bewildered victim. The photos were then used at the trial as supposedly damning evidence. Other priests were accused falsely of molesting children, and German newspapers were filled with lurid and pornographic accounts and cartoons of priests and other clergy. Many priests "confessed" after torture or threats against their parents and relatives. These events were protested in the United States and by local bishops, but the protests did nothing to halt the cruel mockery of priests in films, plays, speeches, and songs.
                        Pope Pius XI’s strongly anti-Nazi papal encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge of March 1937 gave encouragement to Catholics to continue speaking out, and the tone of the Church’s opposition to the Nazis was set in the country by the courageous Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Munich, Cardinal Conrad Count von Preysing of Berlin, Bishop Clemens August Count von Galen of Münster, Archbishop von Preysing of Berlin, Cardinal Bertram of Breslau, and Cardinal Schulte of Cologne. Cardinal Faulhaber delivered a magnificent trio of Advent sermons in 1933 that condemned Nazi anti-Semitic propaganda and caused such anger among the Nazis that the sale of the published edition of his sermons was banned by the government.
                        Bishop von Galen, called the "Lion of Munster," spent the war fearlessly speaking out against the Nazis, and only his popularity kept him from sharing the fate of so many other bishops and priests in Germany and elsewhere (see "The Bishop’s Cry of Protest," page 20). He was beatified by the Church for his holiness and heroic virtue.
                        Underground Network
                        Catholic priests, nuns, and laypeople made it possible for Mit Brennender Sorge to be read everywhere in Germany. Despite the concerted efforts of the Gestapo, thousands upon thousands of copies were printed through a vast underground network and then distributed through the parishes across Nazi Germany. Formal Nazi protests were lodged with the Vatican; Goebbels launched a renewed anti-Catholic propaganda campaign, and the Gestapo arrested hundreds of Catholics, including children who were caught handing out copies of the encyclical. New trials were orchestrated against priests and nuns, including the mockery of a trial held for 170 Franciscans in Koblenz on charges of immorality.
                        With the Nazi invasion of Poland in September 1939 and the start of World War II, the Catholics of Germany were faced with even greater oppression in the name of Reich security. The same policies that had transformed Germany into a prison were now enacted ruthlessly across occupied Europe as the SD, SS, Gestapo, and other Nazi organs of terror were given an utterly free hand.
                        Catholics in Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, France, and Germany, were arrested for speaking any form of criticism of the regime, aiding Jews in any way, or simply refusing to remove religious symbols from schools. The thousands of spies and informers (many fearing for their own lives) provided a steady stream of reports to the Gestapo and SD. Conscientious objectors were executed for treason. One such man was Franz Jägerstätter. Put on trial in Berlin, he was condemned to death for sedition and executed on August 9, 1943, by beheading. He wrote before his death, "Neither prison nor chains nor sentence of death can rob a man of the faith and his free will. God gives so much strength that it is possible to bear any suffering . . ." He was beatified on October 26, 2007 in Linz.
                        The arrests, torture, repression, and mass executions continued unabated right up to the end of the war and the final collapse of the Third Reich, but so too did Catholic resistance. Catholics across occupied Europe gave their lives to protect Jews from the concentration camps.
                        Strikes and Protests
                        In 1941 in the Netherlands, Catholics took part in the strikes and protests against the Nazi treatment of the Jews. In July 1942, the Nazis declared that all Jewish converts and Jews married to Gentiles would be exempted from deportation if the opposition ceased. While the Protestants in the Netherlands agreed, the Archbishop of Utrecht would not be deterred. In response, the authorities deported all Catholics of Jewish blood, including the future saint Edith Stein, while exempting the 9,000 Protestant Jews. Mass deportations soon followed, but Catholics helped thousands to escape and hid another 40,000. Forty-nine priests gave their lives for providing help to Jews. The same story was played out in France and Italy where cardinals, bishops, and priests exhorted the faithful to assist Jews and give them shelter.
                        The model for all Catholics was Pope Pius XII and his heroic and much-documented actions on behalf of Jews in Italy. As the pontiff declared in the 1942 Christmas Message, Catholics should not forget "those hundreds of thousands who, without any fault of their own, sometimes only by reason of their nationality or race, are marked for death or progressive extinction." The Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide’s 1967 book, The Last Three Popes and the Jews, documented that between 700,000 and 860,000 Jews were saved from death by the Church. More might have been done, but Lapide recorded that even as the Polish Catholics were being crushed (see "The Persecution of Poland," page 21), Catholic clergy and religious saved at least 15,000 (possibly as many as 50,000) Jews.
                        By the end of the 12-year reign of Adolf Hitler in 1945, tens of millions of Catholics had died as soldiers, in forced labor, as civilian casualties in the fighting, or as victims in the gas chambers. Catholic churches, cathedrals, monasteries, convents, schools, universities, and monuments lay in ruins. The task then fell to the surviving Catholics in Europe to rebuild those institutions and to begin the equally difficult task of repairing the spiritual damage done by the 12-year Reich.

                        SIDEBARS
                        The Bishop’s Cry of Protest
                        We must be prepared that in the near future such terrifying news will accumulate—that even here one religious house after another will be confiscated by the Gestapo and that its occupants, our brothers and sisters, children of our families, loyal German citizens, will be thrown on to the street like outlawed helots and hunted out of the country, like vermin.
                        —Bishop August von Galen, homily, 1941
                        Many times, and again quite recently, we have seen the Gestapo arresting blameless and highly respected German men and women without the judgment of any court or any opportunity for defense, depriving them of their freedom, taking them away from their homes interning them somewhere. In recent weeks even two members of my closest council, the chapter of our cathedral, have been suddenly seized from their homes by the Gestapo, removed from Münster and banished to distant places.
                        —Bishop August von Galen, homily, 1941
                        The Persecution of Poland
                        Poland was especially singled out for brutality. Jewish Poles were targeted for extermination through work and the gas chambers, while the rest of Poland witnessed the elimination of the country’s political, intellectual, and military classes and the reduction of the surviving population to a vast labor pool. Between 1939 and 1945 at least 1.5 million Poles were transported to the Reich for labor. To decimate Polish culture, the Germans closed or obliterated universities, schools, museums, libraries, and scientific centers.
                        The most feared Polish institution, of course, was the Church, as it had given hope to the Polish people and had encouraged.aspirations of Polish culture, learning, and independence. In the annexed regions of Poland, Nazi officials closed churches, seminaries, convents, and seminaries, and the majority of priests were arrested or executed. Between 1939 and 1945 over 3,000 members of the Polish clergy were killed; 1,992 of them died in concentration camps, 787 of them at Dachau (see "The Priests of Dachau," page 22). Altogether, estimates place the number of Polish civilians killed in the war at between 5 and 5.5 million, including 3 million Polish Jews, not even counting over a half million Polish civilians and military personnel killed in the fighting.
                        The Priests of Dachau
                        The Dachau concentration camp was used by the Nazis for many of its most hated enemies. Among them were Catholic priests. Indeed, of the 2,720 clergy sent to Dachau, 2,579 were Catholic priests, along with uncertain numbers of seminarians and lay brothers. Most were Polish priests, 1,748 in all; there were also 411 German priests. Of the 1,034 priests who died in the camp, 868 were Polish. The priests were housed in a special "priest block" and were targeted for especially brutal treatment by the SS guards.
                        It is estimated that at least 3,000 other Polish priests were sent to other concentration camps, including Auschwitz, while priests from across Europe were condemned to death and labor camps: 300 priests died at Sachsenhausen, 780 at Mauthausen, and 5,000 at Buchenwald. These numbers do not include the priests who were murdered en route to the camps or who died from diseases and exhaustion in the inhuman cattle cars used to transport victims. Several thousand nuns were also sent to camps or killed on the way.
                        The list of victims is a very long one, and the suffering on a daily basis by the priests is unimaginable. For many, the ordeal lasted for years. Adam Kozlowiecki, a Polish priest, was arrested by the Gestapo in November 1939 and was sent to Auschwitz in 1940; transferred to Dachau in December 1940, he spent the next five years there until he was freed by the U.S. army on April 29, 1945. Kozlowiecki was made a cardinal in 1998. A few of the other notable priests at Dachau were Bl. Michal Kozal, Bl. Stefan Grelewski, Bl. Stefan Frelichowski, Bl. Karl Leisner, and Bl. Titus Brandsma.
                        Priests at Dachau Tell Their Stories
                        • Christ in Dachau by Fr. John Lenz (Our Sunday Visitor, 2008)
                        • Priestblock 25487: A Memoir of Dachau by Fr. Jean Bernard (Zaccheus Press, 2007)
                        • The Ninth Day (2004), a film about Fr. Jean Bernard’s experience in Dachau






                        Matthew E. Bunson is a former contributing editor to This Rock and the author of more than 30 books. He is a consultant for USA Today on Catholic matters, a moderator of EWTN’s online Church history forum, and the editor of The Catholic Answer.

                        http://www.catholic.com/magazine/art...-the-holocaust
                        Credo quia absurdum.


                        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                        Comment


                        • Why wouldn't the Catholic Church be targeted by the Nazis (along with religion in general)? After all, like the Communists, the Nazis are a party of the Left that despises anything that opposes or vies for control of the people by the state.

                          Comment


                          • Some of the relating passages of the Koran, addressing the mandate of (physical)Jihad(Holy War) and rewards for engaging in such, etc.;

                            [2.154] And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.

                            [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

                            [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

                            [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

                            [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

                            [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

                            [8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.

                            [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

                            [33.26] And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.

                            [33.27] And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.

                            [47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

                            http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

                            So where are the similar passages and instructions from Jesus Christ in the New Testament that provide sanction for war, death, and destruction in the name of Christ and to advance his teachings?
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                            “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                            Comment


                            • Looking into the whole Thule and Vril aspect of NSDAP/Nazisim can really lead to some 'rabbit hole' channels, but just for reference sake;

                              Wiki may be a questionable source, but it often provides a starting point at least;
                              ...
                              The Thule Society (/ˈtuːlə/; German: Thule-Gesellschaft), originally the Studiengruppe für germanisches Altertum ("Study Group for Germanic Antiquity"), was a German occultist and völkisch group in Munich, named after a mythical northern country from Greek legend. The Society is notable chiefly as the organization that sponsored the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers' Party), which was later reorganized by Adolf Hitler into the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP or Nazi Party). According to Hitler biographer Ian Kershaw, the organization's "membership list... reads like a Who's Who of early Nazi sympathizers and leading figures in Munich", including Rudolf Hess, Alfred Rosenberg, Hans Frank, Julius Lehmann, Gottfried Feder, Dietrich Eckart, and Karl Harrer.[2]
                              ...
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society

                              Images connected with Thule Society (notice the numerous and various versions of swastika)
                              https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...iety&FORM=IGRE

                              The Vril (Society)
                              ...
                              The Coming Race is an 1871 novel by Edward Bulwer-Lytton, reprinted as Vril, the Power of the Coming Race. Among its readers have been those who believed that its account of a superior subterranean master race and the energy-form called "Vril" was accurate, to the extent that some theosophists, notably Helena Blavatsky, William Scott-Elliot, and Rudolf Steiner, accepted the book as being (at least in part) based on occult truth.[1] A book, The Morning of the Magicians (1960), suggested that a secret Vril Society existed in pre-Nazi Berlin. ...
                              ...
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril

                              Images connected to the Vril, etc.
                              https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...Vril&FORM=IGRE
                              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                              “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                                The Coming Race is an 1871 novel by Edward Bulwer-Lytton, reprinted as Vril, the Power of the Coming Race.
                                As you may or may not be aware, Edward George Bulwer-Lytton is most famous for the worst opening line to a novel in all of history... "It was a dark and stormy night..."

                                There's even a contest you can enter to try and top him...

                                http://bulwer-lytton.com/

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