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  • #31
    Originally posted by phil74501 View Post
    It's really two different parts of a problem. Part of the money is borrowed from China and others. If the US defaults on that part those countries won't be too happy. If the US defaults on the intragovernmental debt...the money borrowed from Social Security...then the American electorate isn't going to be too happy. The former makes you a pariah on the international scene, the latter will cause you to lose elections. I'm sure you can guess which of the two 99% of American politicians are going to be concerned with.
    Yup!

    But this is Economics 101 that may be beyond the level of most Regressives/Liberals ranting on this Board.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Salinator View Post
      (...) If the dollar falls, Saudi Arabia is toast:
      Something to consider
      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by phil74501 View Post
        It's really two different parts of a problem. Part of the money is borrowed from China and others. If the US defaults on that part those countries won't be too happy. If the US defaults on the intragovernmental debt...the money borrowed from Social Security...then the American electorate isn't going to be too happy. The former makes you a pariah on the international scene, the latter will cause you to lose elections. I'm sure you can guess which of the two 99% of American politicians are going to be concerned with.
        Actually even if they only default on the international part they loose votes. The USA runs a sizeable trade deficit that relies on foreign credit. Loose that credit rating and the US can no longer import all those things that make US consumers happy
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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        • #34
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          Actually even if they only default on the international part they loose votes. The USA runs a sizeable trade deficit that relies on foreign credit. Loose that credit rating and the US can no longer import all those things that make US consumers happy
          They would cost more to be made here, but people could afford a hell of a lot more if the manufacturing jobs came back, don't you think?

          And really, what we have here is similar to the interlocking treaties that proved to be a suicide pact for Europe in 1914.
          Everything in interlocked, or more like a bunch of spinning plates that all have to be kept up or you get a chain-reaction of crashes. Everyone is being nice about it now, but all it takes is one mistake or serious act of sabotage (hello Iran) and it gets ugly real quick.
          "Why is the Rum gone?"

          -Captain Jack

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          • #35
            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
            Actually even if they only default on the international part they loose votes. The USA runs a sizeable trade deficit that relies on foreign credit. Loose that credit rating and the US can no longer import all those things that make US consumers happy
            Much of that Foreign credit is to to American businesses, not the United States.

            One paper the largest chunk is owed by Walmart but in reality Walmart does not owed any of those Chinese manufacturers squat. Walmart does not buy inventory - they sell on consignment. They have no financial responsibility for their inventory until it is sold. They pay their vendors according to what was scanned at the cash register. If did not sell it does not pay. If it was stolen...destroyed in a flood or storm...it was never sold. If a vendor wants their product back - send your own trucks to get it.
            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

            Prayers.

            BoRG

            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Salinator View Post
              Much of that Foreign credit is to to American businesses, not the United States.

              One paper the largest chunk is owed by Walmart but in reality Walmart does not owed any of those Chinese manufacturers squat. Walmart does not buy inventory - they sell on consignment. They have no financial responsibility for their inventory until it is sold. They pay their vendors according to what was scanned at the cash register. If did not sell it does not pay. If it was stolen...destroyed in a flood or storm...it was never sold. If a vendor wants their product back - send your own trucks to get it.
              I didn't know that. Seems smart on WMs part.

              I would add that China is as addicted to us buying their junk, as we are addicted to buying it. For the time being, we both need each other. The only difference being that, should we ever decide to stop buying their crap, we could always go back to making it ourselves. Who else are they going to sell hundreds of billions of dollars worth of plastic crap to? Nobody. Yes there would be a 5 or 10 year bump in the road until we can get manufacturing built back up, but in the long run our country would be better off for it.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by phil74501 View Post
                I didn't know that. Seems smart on WMs part.

                I would add that China is as addicted to us buying their junk, as we are addicted to buying it. For the time being, we both need each other. The only difference being that, should we ever decide to stop buying their crap, we could always go back to making it ourselves.
                .
                A fallacy There was a reason you started buying stuff from China - they could make quality electronics far cheaper than you could. Now
                1. you don't have the facilities any more
                2. and even if you did prices would rocket (or your companies would make losses on production) which would make people very unhappy
                3. China wants to shift the balance to domestic consumption anyway
                Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  A fallacy There was a reason you started buying stuff from China - they could make quality electronics far cheaper than you could. Now
                  1. you don't have the facilities any more
                  2. and even if you did prices would rocket (or your companies would make losses on production) which would make people very unhappy
                  3. China wants to shift the balance to domestic consumption anyway
                  Yes China can make stuff cheaper than we can, for the time being, but the price we pay for that is the transfer of our wealth to China one Iphone at a time. In the long term it is better for the US to produce it's own widgets than have someone else do it for us. No country is going to maintain its wealth if it runs a negative import/export ratio. We had those facilities once before, I'm sure we could build them again. Even if China switches to domestic consumption, assuming they have enough people with incomes large enough to afford to buy the stuff, that's still not going to affect the US domestically, or politically. The only way that China could switch to domestic consumption is by increasing the salaries of all those factory workers, which means that the cost of the goods produced will go up, no matter what they US does.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                    1. you don't have the facilities any more
                    2. and even if you did prices would rocket (or your companies would make losses on production) which would make people very unhappy
                    3. China wants to shift the balance to domestic consumption anyway
                    1- So? It takes a few months to build new "facilities", unless the Govt keeps regulating businesses out of existence.

                    2- "Rocket"? I still say that the influx of paying jobs would cover that, and it will take time but then so many people (especially those of certain political persuasions... ahem) think that we consume too much here and have it too easy anyway.
                    I would rather see us toughened up a little now than watch it all fall off a cliff later on.

                    3- China will inevitably have to take care of their long-suffereing people and allow them to own some of what they have been manufacturing for a pittance. The Chinese people have every right to a better life, and that is when the gravy-train of cheap exports ends, and their economy will have to start behaving like everyone else's operations.
                    As was the case in Taiwan, Japan, and every other source of cheap labor in the past.
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                      1- So? It takes a few months to build new "facilities", unless the Govt keeps regulating businesses out of existence.

                      2- "Rocket"? I still say that the influx of paying jobs would cover that, and it will take time but then so many people (especially those of certain political persuasions... ahem) think that we consume too much here and have it too easy anyway.
                      I would rather see us toughened up a little now than watch it all fall off a cliff later on.

                      3- China will inevitably have to take care of their long-suffereing people and allow them to own some of what they have been manufacturing for a pittance. The Chinese people have every right to a better life, and that is when the gravy-train of cheap exports ends, and their economy will have to start behaving like everyone else's operations.
                      As was the case in Taiwan, Japan, and every other source of cheap labor in the past.
                      The American people have repeatedly demonstrated that they prefer cheaper goods over American made goods. The only way to "bring back" manufacturing jobs is to go against the American people to implement stringent protective economic measures meant to force the public to purchase American made goods - aka state intervention in the economy to limit individual choice, something that is usually decried as being socialism/anti-capitalism/etc.

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                      • #41
                        Top selling cars and trucks in the US in June
                        Vehicle Total sales, June 2016 Percent change from June 2015
                        Toyota Camry 32,561 -13.0 percent
                        Honda Civic 31,810 10.7 percent
                        Toyota Corolla 30,950 1.0 percent
                        Nissan Altima 30,475 3.6 percent

                        Notice something EX? Americans want quality first regardless where it is made. America doesn't fulfill the consumers whats with quality. Do you want to buy a main frame, or aircraft, space craft, military gear give us a call. Do you want a cheap TV, toaster or a shirt? SOOL, we cannot compete with the labor cost.
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                          The American people have repeatedly demonstrated that they prefer cheaper goods over American made goods. The only way to "bring back" manufacturing jobs is to go against the American people to implement stringent protective economic measures meant to force the public to purchase American made goods - aka state intervention in the economy to limit individual choice, something that is usually decried as being socialism/anti-capitalism/etc.
                          If the lot of China's workers is to improve, the prices of exports will have to increase.
                          That's all I was basing it on.
                          "Why is the Rum gone?"

                          -Captain Jack

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