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  • Gadsden flag is racist?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...al-harassment/


    On January 8, 2014, Complainant filed a formal complaint in which he alleged that the Agency subjected him to discrimination on the basis of race (African American) and in reprisal for prior EEO activity when, starting in the fall of 2013, a coworker (C1) repeatedly wore a cap to work with an insignia of the Gadsden Flag, which depicts a coiled rattlesnake and the phrase “Don’t Tread on Me.”
    must take a lot of effort to stay offended all the time.
    45B10 1986-91

  • #2
    Not if you read the article carefully.

    From the decision:

    After a thorough review of the record, it is clear that the Gadsden Flag originated in the Revolutionary War in a non-racial context. Moreover, it is clear that the flag and its slogan have been used to express various non-racial sentiments, such as when it is used in the modern Tea Party political movement, guns rights activism, patriotic displays, and by the military.
    However they decided that depending on the CONTEXT it could in certain individual cases.

    However, whatever the historic origins and meaning of the symbol, it also has since been sometimes interpreted to convey racially-tinged messages in some contexts. For example, in June 2014, assailants with connections to white supremacist groups draped the bodies of two murdered police officers with the Gadsden flag during their Las Vegas, Nevada shooting spree.
    So they threw it back to the individual agency to look at the exact circumstances concerning the employee wearing the hat.

    In light of the ambiguity in the current meaning of this symbol, we find that Complainant’s claim must be investigated to determine the specific context in which C1 displayed the symbol in the workplace.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

    Comment


    • #3
      Complainant maintains that the Gadsden Flag is a “historical indicator of white resentment against blacks stemming largely from the Tea Party.” He notes that the Vice President of the International Association of Black Professional Firefighters cited the Gadsden Flag as the equivalent of the Confederate Battle Flag when he successfully had it removed from a New Haven, Connecticut fire department flagpole.
      my comment is directed toward the original complainant and not necessarily the EEOCs response.
      which was typically bureaucratic.

      there is no listing in the complaint that the hat wearer ever acted in a racist manner. usually people who file these complaints have a laundry list of offenses as supporting data. in this case there is nothing listed in the complaint other than the fact that someone wore a hat with a flag on it.
      45B10 1986-91

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by popuptarget View Post
        my comment is directed toward the original complainant and not necessarily the EEOCs response.
        which was typically bureaucratic.

        there is no listing in the complaint that the hat wearer ever acted in a racist manner. usually people who file these complaints have a laundry list of offenses as supporting data. in this case there is nothing listed in the complaint other than the fact that someone wore a hat with a flag on it.
        People complain about all kinds of things, lots of them stupid.

        The complaint is NOT in the article, only the response on the ruling that it could not be racist. So no info on how the hat wearer acted. Just like lots of people complain, lots of people are assholes. Hat wearer could have been one.
        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
        “To talk of many things:
        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
        Of cabbages—and kings—
        And why the sea is boiling hot—
        And whether pigs have wings.”
        ― Lewis Carroll

        Comment


        • #5
          Just another attempt to erase our history by Big Government extremists. The flag has no history of racism but it is a symbol to not trespass on our freedoms.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
            Not if you read the article carefully.

            From the decision:



            However they decided that depending on the CONTEXT it could in certain individual cases.



            So they threw it back to the individual agency to look at the exact circumstances concerning the employee wearing the hat.
            So, what they said and what you are defending, is in essence that the opinion of the complainant, feelings of the complainant, and unproven positions regarding the Gadsden flag by the complainant out weigh entirely the right of a co-worker to make a personal statement by wearing the hat.

            Hurt feelings trump the First Amendment. (Pun intended ).

            We have in the analysis the faulty position that the employer should maximize economic position over employee rights / freedoms to avoid lawsuits brought for dubious reasons such as subjective claims of "harassment."

            This lawsuit is about, putting it bluntly, hurt feelings on the part of one worker because of the actions of another worker. What have we become? A nation of six year olds? The complainant needs to grow up and get over it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              So, what they said and what you are defending, is in essence that the opinion of the complainant, feelings of the complainant, and unproven positions regarding the Gadsden flag by the complainant out weigh entirely the right of a co-worker to make a personal statement by wearing the hat.

              Hurt feelings trump the First Amendment. (Pun intended ).

              We have in the analysis the faulty position that the employer should maximize economic position over employee rights / freedoms to avoid lawsuits brought for dubious reasons such as subjective claims of "harassment."

              This lawsuit is about, putting it bluntly, hurt feelings on the part of one worker because of the actions of another worker. What have we become? A nation of six year olds? The complainant needs to grow up and get over it.
              No, you just pulled that out of you know where. I DEFENDED nothing. Stop making up stuff please. I simply posted the information from the link and made it clear exactly where this was up.
              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
              “To talk of many things:
              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
              Of cabbages—and kings—
              And why the sea is boiling hot—
              And whether pigs have wings.”
              ― Lewis Carroll

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                No, you just pulled that out of you know where. I DEFENDED nothing. Stop making up stuff please. I simply posted the information from the link and made it clear exactly where this was up.
                See post #2...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  See post #2...
                  No "defense" or support in that post at all. The OP ask a question, the info was in his link. I extracted it.

                  Please HIGH LIGHT any support I gave.
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Only thing racist I see is the complainant.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                      No "defense" or support in that post at all. The OP ask a question, the info was in his link. I extracted it.

                      Please HIGH LIGHT any support I gave.
                      You responded to the OP.

                      The OP ended with
                      must take a lot of effort to stay offended all the time.
                      You then state:

                      Not if you read the article carefully.
                      That is followed by three quotes that appear move towards siding with the eventual decision to allow the employee to be disciplined or prosecuted for wearing the hat.

                      In the context of what you were responding to, that is support for the way things were handled, and in turn the case.

                      My counter claim was the whole incident was utter BS and the complainant should have been told to "Grow up and act like an adult..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        You responded to the OP.

                        The OP ended with

                        You then state:



                        That is followed by three quotes that appear move towards siding with the eventual decision to allow the employee to be disciplined or prosecuted for wearing the hat.

                        In the context of what you were responding to, that is support for the way things were handled, and in turn the case.

                        My counter claim was the whole incident was utter BS and the complainant should have been told to "Grow up and act like an adult..."
                        What is the thread title?

                        Gadsden flag is racist?

                        See the question mark.

                        I used HIS source to answer HIS question.

                        And those quotes are NOT my opinion are they? They have nothing to do with me. They are simple the 'heart' of the decision handed down. They answer his question.

                        Oh, and even those quotes don't do what you claim in this post.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hell to some people everything and every symbol or flag is racist, I have actually met people that are convinced that the Stars and Stripes is racist, I saw morons on TV today demonstrating against the Gadsden Flag, claiming it was racist, these idiots see a racist behind every tree, the word racist seems to be the Soupe du Joure nowadays, remember the removal of all Confederate flags and symbols, this crap is just insane!
                          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post

                            I used HIS source to answer HIS question.
                            Not very clearly.
                            Why all the tap-dancing? Can't you say Yes or NO to the question, or is talking like a lawyer a way of life for you?
                            "Why is the Rum gone?"

                            -Captain Jack

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                              People complain about all kinds of things, lots of them stupid.

                              The complaint is NOT in the article, only the response on the ruling that it could not be racist. So no info on how the hat wearer acted. Just like lots of people complain, lots of people are assholes. Hat wearer could have been one.


                              I did not read the decision handed down by the EEOC, but they did not conclude the flag is not racist. They gave the complainant the benefit of a doubt and found it must be investigated. The EEOC relied on some pretty lousy evidence to conclude the meaning of the flag could be racist. (at least based on quotes from the article) So, the point of the OP is correct, it could ultimately be found to be racist regardless of the actual history of the flag. They want more evidence to show that the use of the flag is racist. Under this standard, anything could be racist.
                              The EEOC stated (from the article):

                              In light of the ambiguity in the current meaning of this symbol, we find that Complainant’s claim must be investigated to determine the specific context in which C1 displayed the symbol in the workplace. In so finding, we are not prejudging the merits of Complainant’s complaint. Instead, we are precluding a procedural dismissal that would deprive us of evidence that would illuminate the meaning conveyed by C1’s display of the symbol.
                              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                              Comment

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